Covers = Illegal (lyrics, singer, cds, shows, quote)

jackhammer · 08-01-2007, 05:25 PM

More bullsh[i]t from the money grabbing multi-nationals. In that case they had better put a representative in every live venue in the world. Considering 80% of bands start out as cover bands (this is an estimated guess, please don't trawl the net for actual statistics), we will probably end up with NO decent music EVER!

This politically correct towing the line malarkey is really fuking me off.

Alexander the Grape · 08-01-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimintheundertow

Not in the majority of the history of music.

Well, ever since music copyright laws came into effect. I just thought it was weird how this article makes it sound like they're shedding light onto some new perverse practice of the greedy world of the music industry.

MRV · 08-02-2007, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

What utter rubbish.

Could you imagine the state of the world if the publishing industry took the same example with books? Imagine schools having to pay money out to quote books , imagine libraries being closed down because of illegal sharing of free books.

The music industry is full of crooks & opportunists and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Actually, books are not different than music when it comes to paying for use.

Libraries and schools are permitted use of copyrighted material by way of “Fair Use” which is part of the U.S Copyright Act that pertains to ALL copyrighted work. So ‘students’ can both enjoy and learn from the music of others without paying for it.

And remember, libraries have to purchase many of their books with our tax money. In fact, they spend an average of 20-30% of their budget for materials, and around 85% of funding comes from taxes. So it seems you should include book publishers in your description of "crooks and opportunists".

If a book were read in it’s entirety on a radio station, the station would have to pay for that use.

Wherever you work, imagine how long you’d be employed if the company were no longer allowed to sell its product. You’d quickly have empty pockets for groceries. But then in your world, I suppose groceries would be free. Of course there’d be no grocery stores in that case.

I guess we both should go now and plant our gardens if we plan to eat in your world.

Cheers.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-02-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRV

Actually, books are not different than music when it comes to paying for use.

Libraries and schools are permitted use of copyrighted material by way of “Fair Use” which is part of the U.S Copyright Act that pertains to ALL copyrighted work. So ‘students’ can both enjoy and learn from the music of others without paying for it.

I don't live in the U.S. so American laws don't apply to me

Quote:

And remember, libraries have to purchase many of their books with our tax money. In fact, they spend an average of 20-30% of their budget for materials, and around 85% of funding comes from taxes. So it seems you should include book publishers in your description of "crooks and opportunists".

My sister is a librarian & most of the books from her library come from 2nd hand donations rather than buying new. And she also spends a lot of time at book fairs where publishers give her free copies to put in the library. Very few books are 'bought' new. I'm sure there is some truth in your 85% funding point , but very little of that is spent on new books.
Besides that's not the point I was making , the point is they don't charge you money everytime you take a book out.

Quote:

If a book were read in it’s entirety on a radio station, the station would have to pay for that use.

I'm sure they would but this point is totally meaningless to what i'm talking about.

Quote:

Wherever you work, imagine how long you’d be employed if the company were no longer allowed to sell its product. You’d quickly have empty pockets for groceries. But then in your world, I suppose groceries would be free. Of course there’d be no grocery stores in that case.

True , but then again I treated my buisness like the record industry do i'd probably be able to retire from spending 2 decades overcharging for CD's.
I'm not saying everything should be free , if a record company started up a subscription service where you could live stream any album by every artist on that label for a set fee a month I would happily subscribe to it. As it happens none of them have either the intellect or the foresight to do this so they'll just go on overcharging on I-Tunes , releasing rubbish & moaning about piracy until they go bankrupt.

Quote:

I guess we both should go now and plant our gardens if we plan to eat in your world.Cheers.

Your welcome

boo boo · 08-02-2007, 12:26 PM

It makes perfect sense, actually.

boo boo · 08-02-2007, 01:21 PM

Illegal filesharing is the greatest invention since shrinky dinks.

But now they have gone to pretty ridiculous lengths to milk up some extra cash. I wouldn't be surprised if what was once a joke on the Onion (illegalising radio) one day becomes a reality.

It really is dumb. Its like Urban said, schools copy books and no one gives a crap, people can buy copies of famous art works and no legal action is taken, people can tell a generic joke and not get sued by the person who came up with it.

Its all about the Benjamins as far as the big labels are concerned.

MRV · 08-02-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

True , but then again I treated my buisness like the record industry do i'd probably be able to retire from spending 2 decades overcharging for CD's.
I'm not saying everything should be free , if a record company started up a subscription service where you could live stream any album by every artist on that label for a set fee a month I would happily subscribe to it. As it happens none of them have either the intellect or the foresight to do this so they'll just go on overcharging on I-Tunes , releasing rubbish & moaning about piracy until they go bankrupt.

"Releasing rubbish"... we can definitely agree on that. Corporations abandoning their music industry assets would put a wide smile on my face.

Believe it or not, I'm not sympathetic to the labels. As you said, they didn't have the foresight and still appear to not have the intellect to solve the problem by changing their business model. Their answer has been to sue and branch further into the music publishing arena.

There are folks working to arrive at a new model, like We7.com, but you're right, the labels just don't get it.

But... I AM sympathetic to songwriters... and they earn their living through sales and primarily "performance" royalties.

We'll have to agree to disagree on "overcharging" for CD's. Being an American I'm all about capitalism and what the market will bear.

Thanks for the discussion bro.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-02-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRV

But... I AM sympathetic to songwriters... and they earn their living through sales and primarily "performance" royalties.

There's still plenty of money to be made.
Just look at Prince , he gave his new album away free with a Sunday newspaper , as a result of that he's sold out 21 shows just in London alone.
It's rumoured that he's made something like £5 million ($10 million) just out of those two things alone. Without a record company getting a penny of it.

Thats not bad for an artist who was considered on the decline. In fact his new album has only sold 96,000 copies in the US. In the UK something like 4 million people bought that copy of the Mail On Sunday.

Thats how you get exposure & make money.

SEF · 08-04-2007, 12:31 AM

I'm sad now.

swim · 08-04-2007, 09:26 AM

Labels can be successful at selling cds for 5 bucks a piece. FACT!
Plan-It-X Records: Catalog

Most artists don't make most of their money from merch or shows or charging people for covers. Most musicians have irl jobs and make music because they want to and even lose money from it.

08-01-2007, 05:25 PM	#11 (permalink)
jackhammer Ba and Be. Join Date: May 2007 Location: This Is England Posts: 17,331	More bullsh[i]t from the money grabbing multi-nationals. In that case they had better put a representative in every live venue in the world. Considering 80% of bands start out as cover bands (this is an estimated guess, please don't trawl the net for actual statistics), we will probably end up with NO decent music EVER! This politically correct towing the line malarkey is really fuking me off. __________________ It be my music and film collection. “A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.”

08-04-2007, 12:31 AM	#19 (permalink)
SEF Music Addict Join Date: May 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 61	I'm sad now. __________________ i herd u liek music

08-04-2007, 09:26 AM	#20 (permalink)
swim dontcareaboutyou Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 5,188	Labels can be successful at selling cds for 5 bucks a piece. FACT! Plan-It-X Records: Catalog Most artists don't make most of their money from merch or shows or charging people for covers. Most musicians have irl jobs and make music because they want to and even lose money from it. __________________ http://nakednaps.bandcamp.com/