Are rappers really musicans?
 

Ok, I want to do this peacefully. And this has nothing to do with race. There is plenty of great music wriiten and performed by African Americans.

I found this in an article on the internet somewhere:
"Rappers speak over prerecorded beats, listen for hours to records, find samples (snippets of melody and rhythm), then place these on tape loops and begin narration. Sometimes rappers even use conversations as a compositional springboard, or develop rhymes while riding in cars.... Rappers utilize multi-tracking, insert snippets and melodic fragments, and weave their words in and out of thick sound montages. A rapper will change the formula of his presentation, altering enunciation, pronunciation, and cadence to make the point."

How accurate of a description is this of the songwriting process of a rapper? Obviously, everyone has there own methods to songwriting, but in general.

My point is I hear "prerecorded beats" and "finding snippets of melody and rhythm" and I'm thinking why don't you take out a musical instrument and write some melodies? If you or your band don't play any musical instruments, you have no musical talent and are not musicians. Most rappers I see performing aren't playing instruments and only have a DJ behind them with turntables.

I want to make this clear, I absolutely think rapping is a talent, but I don't think it's a musical talent.

You say rapping is a talent... and they use it to make music... so how exactly is it not a musical talent?

well, thankyou "rapsucks" for making a more intelligent argument then your screename would suggest.

to quote, im not sure the name of him, but the rapper sayd "rappers are musicians who couldnt play instruments but still wanted to be able to make music", not an exact quote, but along those lines.

I think being a dj still takes an incredible musical ear, if you listen to anything by "ant" or dangermouse you'd be impressed. Ive heard mixing of Frank Sinatra mixed with Biggie, the beatles mixed with jay z, even nirvana acoustic stuff mixed with jay z. And somehow they are able to make it blend perfectly.

I think it still takes a lot of musical talent, just not in the classical sense, and i think people are still not understanding that.

What I'm saying is that it is a skill to rap but it takes no musical "intelligence."

Since "rap" only describes the vocal style it's pretty hard to make blanket statements about the music. There are groups like the Roots who are straight up bands that play regular instruments. There are people like Dizzee Rascal (yeah, yeah, I know he's grime, he raps damnit) who compose original music electronically. There are people like Outkast who are multi-instumentalists who play live instruments, compose electronically and sample depending on what they're doing. There are groups like Dalek who sample almost exclusively but do it in such an interesting way that they make the music completely their own.

All of it requires musical ability. Let me put it this way: I'm a musician who makes music that is both done on a laptop and performed on regular instruments and I almost never try to build songs out of long samples like some rap groups do. Why? Because it's an unbelievable pain in the ass to try to make it work well. It's far easier to play something on a regular instrument.

So in answer to your question: yes, they are musicians.

wtf is intellegince? they're is hardly a way to describe what is intellegince in a topic as large as music. its subjective, no different from art, literature, or filmaking.

I don't think have the screenname RapSucks is any different than have the screenname (inert band here)Sucks. I can't make a whole argument with my screenname.

Ok, still if really had some musical talent would you write your own beats and melodies?

Playing 3 chords doesn't take much talent but you never see people saying are rock n roll bands / punk bands really musicians.

There are non subjective parts to music. There's knowing how to play an instrument, knowing scales, and knowing how to read music. That's Music "IQ."

True but at least they're writing something of their own. No matter how simplistic it is.

so, say i have musical talent. But i don't have a well paying job, and i cant afford good musical equipment, but i am capable of making good lyrics?

music is rythm, rap still has that. you seem to be implying rap artists aren't as intelligent as rock artists? is what i seem to be getting from this.

and not all rappers are african american...

Quite a few do actually, and rap is as music form. Music is sound, not instruments. I don't see why you needed to attack rappers for not playing instruments (which is a completely untrue generalization), it would just as much sense to bash Bruce Dickinson, Joey Ramone, and Robert Plant. I mean they just sing, they're not musicians technically. I guess they shouldn't receive any respect in the music field either right?

Bit of a blanket statement there.

First of all don't just narrow it to rock. Second of all, they don't write their own rhythm, correct? To me having musical talent is being able to play instruments and write music.

not every musician has known how to read notes(james brown)

Some rappers write their lyrics, never sample a note, write their own beats and produce their own songs. So this thread in my mind is dumb. I think stealing riffs is just as bad/wrong/regressive as sampling. Which is all throughout rock music.

how the **** are you able to generalize every rapper into one group?

the roots have already been mentioned, and they're thousands of rappers who do their own production and rapping.

Absolutely, but there are people who will view it as a racist comment and that is absolutely NOT what I intend.

You're right, but certainly a large majority of maistream rap falls under my generalization.

I can agree with that. Of course the keyword in your post is "some".

I don't see any difference between playing guitar, working the turntables, or twisting a little dial that makes terrible death sounds come out of an amplifier. It's all music to me.

RapSucks is certainly outnumbered, while everybody else is closing up his breathing space...

Yea, if they aren't musicans.

I think a majority of mainstream rock is boring tedious rubbish but that doesn't mean I generalise all rock music that way. And I actually listen to rock music , I doubt anyone with your username would bother to make any great effort to listen to any hip hop when you have obviously decided that it's all rubbish.

You seem to be yet another of these boring rock fans who are totally lost at having to listen to anything other than a band with guitar , drums , bass & vocals and have no sense of adventure at all. If you think rap isn't made by proper musicians I pity you if you ever find yourself listening to any experimental or avant garde music , you'll be well out of your depth

Well I guess since I'm outnumbered on this little website I'll just give up. Man I'm an idiot for being the only person out of 10 people that has a certain opinion.

I agree. I mean an open E is an open E on a guitar. Millions of people have written songs with an open E in them but that doesn't make them non-musicians. There are no new notes, it's just in what you do with them. That's why I see sampling, as long as you make it your own, as just as valid as any other way of producing sound.

You have to live under a rock to not hear rap. And I can tell you for sure that I don't live under a rock.
So it's adventurous to take the music out of music?
Rap and rock aren't the only two types of music out there. Not listening to rap is exactly being narrow minded.

You're right. ;)

You're basing you're entire opinion of rap off MTV aren't you?

PWNT

I think he must be.

I don't hear much good hip hop on the radio , but then like I said I don't hear a lot of good rock music on the radio either but it must be out there because I find good examples of both.

Depends on what your definiton of music is.

No it isn't , but dismissing all of it based on it not being 'musical' is

Alright tell me who can I listen to that actually doesn't sample and really writes their own music? I swear I've asked other people this before and they basically give me the same sh**ty stuff.

ok i'll do that after you find me a good metal band that doesn't use guitars drums or bass.

So there isn't one?

Kinda missed the point there didn't you

Did you miss my post on page one? I mentioned a couple such bands.

To take a really, really popular example: how about Outkast? Both those guys are multi-instrumentalists.

Ok you guys are right, it is a generalization. There is a hell of a lot of "musicans" out there making a hell of a lot of money for not making any real music. And I still think the majority of rappers aren't musicans, but thanks for actually holding a civil debate.

Hey, thank you for being civil too. :)