Unpopular Music Opinions

Black Francis · 10-11-2014, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

Punk is mostly sloppily played pop music. Noise, free jazz etc. are much more punk than punk.

Wha? what the hell are you talking abou-..

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

Bob Dylan might be historically influential, but his music is lame.

That's it..

I agree with the other things you said though, but how can you not like Bob dylan? is it cause he sings like a retarded fellow?

you gotta get past that and just listen to his lyrics, they're really good.

grindy · 10-11-2014, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Francis

Wha? what the hell are you talking abou-..

That's it..

I agree with the other things you said though, but how can you not like Bob dylan? is it cause he sings like a retarded fellow?

you gotta get past that and just listen to his lyrics, they're really good.

I just think that for music that is supposed to be wild and anarchic, there isn't much dissonance and chaos in punk. Structurally it is pretty close to pop.

I rarely listen to music for the lyrics. Although if the lyrics are good, that's a nice bonus of course.

grindy · 10-11-2014, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Francis

Wha? what the hell are you talking abou-..

That's it..

I agree with the other things you said though, but how can you not like Bob dylan? is it cause he sings like a retarded fellow?

you gotta get past that and just listen to his lyrics, they're really good.

I think for music that is supposed to be wild and anarchic there isn't much chaos and dissonance in punk. Structurally it's not far removed from pop.

I rarely listen to music for the lyrics. Although good lyrics are a nice bonus of course and sometimes aggressively terrible lyrics can ruin good music.

The Batlord · 10-11-2014, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

I think for music that is supposed to be wild and anarchic there isn't much chaos and dissonance in punk. Structurally it's not far removed from pop.

Well it's supposed to be close to pop. The punk bands of the seventies didn't like all the guitar-hero stuff, and wanted to be bring back the simpler stuff like early Beatles and the Kinks and whatnot. Punk IS pop. Just louder and faster.

grindy · 10-11-2014, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Well it's supposed to be close to pop. The punk bands of the seventies didn't like all the guitar-hero stuff, and wanted to be bring back the simpler stuff like early Beatles and the Kinks and whatnot. Punk IS pop. Just louder and faster.

I think you do have a point there... The Sex Pistols' cover of My Way also comes to mind. But still, some more noise and dissonance wouldn't hurt in my opinion.

Also I think the antagonism between punk and prog is somewhat a phenomenon constructed by music journalists. Not to say that punk was not in a way an antithesis to prog's somwhat pompous aesthetics, but for example Van der Graaf Generator and especially Peter Hammill's solo output was a big influence on punk and some of the american proto-punk was influenced by Captain Beefheart, whose music was punkish in it's rawness, but also pretty complex at times.

Black Francis · 10-11-2014, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

I think for music that is supposed to be wild and anarchic there isn't much chaos and dissonance in punk. Structurally it's not far removed from pop.

I agree to an extent but i depends on which kind of Punk bands you're talking about. If you're talking about The Ramones or The clash, yea, they were pop as hell
But other bands found a less pop melody in punk

^ This song for exmpl has hook and a structure but to me is not a it's not pop structure, it's a punk one.

structurally the only similarity i see between punk and pop is that they both indeed have a structure but the melodic hooks from both genres are very different.

plus the mindset that influences the music is very different as well, pop is all about being popular while punk is not about popularity or being accepted.

grindy · 10-11-2014, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Francis

I agree to an extent but i depends on which kind of Punk bands you're talking about. If you're talking about The Ramones or The clash, yea, they were pop as hell
But other bands found a less pop melody in punk

^ This song for exmpl has hook and a structure but to me is not a it's not pop structure, it's a punk one.

structurally the only similarity i see between punk and pop is that they both indeed have a structure but the melodic hooks from both genres are very different.

plus the mindset that influences the music is very different as well, pop is all about being popular while punk is not about popularity or being accepted.

Well, they sure do rock.
I still think, that you could change the arrangement without changing much of the chords, melody, rhythm etc. though and make quite a nice pop song out of it. But I'm not big on composition, so I might be talking nonsense.
I also don't mean "pop" as an insult, there's nothing wrong with pop, but I do find it funny, when people listening to the more poppish punk see those two genres as completely opposite.
The thing might also be, that I listened to punk mostly for the chaos and dissonance (and the sociopolitical messages which set my teenage heart on fire

), but when I found music that had more of the noisy stuff, punk just wasn't as fulfilling for me anymore.

Black Francis · 10-11-2014, 01:38 PM

I was gonna mention something like that, you probably don't hear much dissonance in it anymore because you're used to it.

More than used to it, it seems you moved on from it. that happened to me too, i went through a punk phase as well but i outgrew it and now i prefer noise bands as well.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 10-11-2014, 01:52 PM

It's a shame the first punk album wasn't P.I.L's Metal Box.

Just think of all the awful hack punk bands that would never have happened in the name of 'punk rock' that have been clogging up the world of music churning out their shitty 3 chord bollocks year after year for the last 40 years.

Dylstew · 10-11-2014, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

Well, they sure do rock.
I still think, that you could change the arrangement without changing much of the chords, melody, rhythm etc. though and make quite a nice pop song out of it. But I'm not big on composition, so I might be talking nonsense.
I also don't mean "pop" as an insult, there's nothing wrong with pop, but I do find it funny, when people listening to the more poppish punk see those two genres as completely opposite.
The thing might also be, that I listened to punk mostly for the chaos and dissonance (and the sociopolitical messages which set my teenage heart on fire

), but when I found music that had more of the noisy stuff, punk just wasn't as fulfilling for me anymore.

Hell, I can even hear something poppy in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjKA8f30Fxg

And this is definitely something that will NOT appeal to pop fans.

10-11-2014, 01:38 PM	#9578 (permalink)
Black Francis Out of Place Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: in an abstract house Posts: 4,111	I was gonna mention something like that, you probably don't hear much dissonance in it anymore because you're used to it. More than used to it, it seems you moved on from it. that happened to me too, i went through a punk phase as well but i outgrew it and now i prefer noise bands as well. __________________ "Hey Kids you got to meet the MIGHTY PIXIES!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbRbCtIgW3A Last edited by Black Francis; 10-11-2014 at 05:25 PM.

10-11-2014, 01:52 PM	#9579 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	It's a shame the first punk album wasn't P.I.L's Metal Box. Just think of all the awful hack punk bands that would never have happened in the name of 'punk rock' that have been clogging up the world of music churning out their shitty 3 chord bollocks year after year for the last 40 years. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.