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Old 08-26-2014, 02:42 PM   #8971 (permalink)
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There's a lot of bands and artists that don't have an overabundance of actual good material when in comparison to other major acts.

Take Marc Bolan for example, his notoriety definitely exceeds the amount of actual good music he contributed.

Just saying...
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:02 PM   #8972 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Janszoon View Post
There are no new legends because performers only are viewed as legendary in retrospect. The pop stars of the 60s weren't considered legends in the 60s either.
This is true but most of the time I would say roughly....95.9 percent of the time, most icons transition into legends because of their iconic impact, songs, music videos, albums etc.

The Beatles were icons because of their innovations and contributions. They were calling the Beatles icons and legends even then.
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:02 PM   #8973 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Goofle View Post
JT, Gaga, Beyonce and Pharrell to name a few.
None of them are Icons or legends

None of them have classic songs

None of them have significantly contributed or enhanced music.

None of them have Iconic albums

None of them have Iconic music videos

None of them have done anything groundbreaking

None of them have iconic performances

None of them have classic albums

They are all overrated and overexposed.
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:07 PM   #8974 (permalink)
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I dunno about legends, but I'd agree, those are definitely some pop icons
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:07 PM   #8975 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofle View Post
Gaga, Beyonce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulflower View Post
None of them have iconic performances
Now that's just silly.
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:07 PM   #8976 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulflower View Post
None of them are Icons or legends

None of them have classic songs

None of them have significantly contributed or enhanced music.

None of them have Iconic albums

None of them have Iconic music videos

None of them have done anything groundbreaking

None of them have iconic performances

None of them have classic albums

They are all overrated and overexposed.
Sounds like what Michael Jackson is to me.
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:33 PM   #8977 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Frownland View Post
I don't see this as being any different from Lady Gaga's antics. Looks like we pegged down one modern icon.
If you are going to compare the legendary MJ to a mediocre gimmick then you need to provide support for your argument.

Nothing I stated were antics. I described a specific performance with desription and how that performance made an impact on audiences as well as how audiences would define Michael as an entertainer. Its an easily recognizable performance and event for that reason because it IS Iconic.


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Originally Posted by Frownland View Post
I know you have the biggest hard-on for MJ on this site and that's fine. I just don't see him as having done anything innovative musically. Yeah he brought a lot to dancing and the music video industry, but his tunes are just standard pop to my ears.
I was speaking in reference to you saying he did not innovate anything which is not true. You don't have to like my boo but you will give credit where it is due

Michael enhanced the music video medium and made it into an art form. That was not done before him or before his time. Objectively, he is an innovator that contributed to music and performance regardless whether it was specifically related to music or not. Artists rely heavily on their music videos and keep that in made when they create music. It is very much apart of music just as much as the actual song is itself.

Michael created albums and songs that were groundbreaking, impactful, iconic, and classics regardless whether they were innovative or not.

He made significant contributions to the industry even through his music.



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Originally Posted by Frownland View Post
That's because becoming iconic or classic takes time.
Can I have a ride in your time machine to the future? It's impossible to assume that these generic songs won't have an impact because generic artists like The Beatles (by which I mean their early stuff) and Sinatra made waves on the music scene simply because of their time in the spotlight.
Why not?

They don't have impact now so why would they have impact 50 years from now?

There is a difference between classic songs versus classic albums.

I personally am not a huge Beatles fan but I like a few of their songs. As legendary as the Beatles are, even they have songs that are not considered to be a "classic" but since the Beatles have a handful of classics, classic albums, significant contributions to music etc, those handful that are not considered classics really does not matter in retrospect because of their impact.


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Originally Posted by Frownland View Post
You're really saying people aren't going to be citing Kanye West as an influence in the future because you think he had "quick hits"?
Not, not like Tupac, Rakim, NWA, Biggie, Nas etc


Kanye had potential but wasted it.

He is a better producer than he is rapper anyway.


"College Drop Out" possibly has potential will see. People don't really site that album as a classic, they just say that was his best album which is a difference.



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Originally Posted by Frownland View Post
That's because becoming iconic or classic takes time.
Im sure this 2x4 of an idea has been beat over your head more times than I can count on this site, but there's always been **** in popular music.

When did I say there wasn't?



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Originally Posted by Frownland View Post

Only a few remain standing in the public's eye when the dust settles and those are the icons. Yeah, their music can be bad sometimes but tbh but I'm not going to deny that they're icons.

How would you define an Icon?

Because I don't see how you can be an Icon with no Iconic albums, no Iconic songs, No Iconic performances, No Iconic videos, etc.

How can you be an Iconic when you did nothing groundbreaking or impactful that reasonated with audiences?

So your saying what makes an Icon is someone who is overexposed and has a good PR team?

That is not an Icon.

Say what you want, but MJ, Madonna (who I am not even a big fan of) Prince are Icons because they have Iconic moments in pop culture. They have Iconic songs, albums, performances, videos etc. Prince was not even that popular after the Purple Rain album and still remained an Icon for his contributions.
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:35 PM   #8978 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Frownland View Post
Now that's just silly.
What live performances have they done that reasonated with audiences?

What live performances that they did that were "groundbreaking"?

Just because someone can put on a show does not mean they have "iconic performances"
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:41 PM   #8979 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Goofle View Post
Sounds like what Michael Jackson is to me.

So you think two marketing PR gimmicks Beyonce/Gaga are Icons but don't consider Michael Jackson to be?




Ok. lol
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:46 PM   #8980 (permalink)
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Michael Jackson is an icon because he influenced current artists that are not iconic.

Iconic

Iconic

Ironic
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