Unpopular Music Opinions

**Janszoon** · 07-11-2012, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinnx

Not saying people shouldn't express the way they want to express musically. I'm only giving reasons as to why I wouldn't go further and further in which way labelling becomes more and more of central focus as what they will stick to. Coming from an open angle then anything. Continual definitions with orthodox groupings gets boring and overused after a while. Explanations are fine, it's more labelling that's the issue.

I guess I don't see what describing something has to do with whether you have an open mind or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinnx

Don't really see where fear comes into it.

"For fear of" is just a figure of speech. I'm not talking about people living in terror.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinnx

I don't like music because it's metal. I like it because it's good music.

Okay, but what does that have to do with the use of sub-genres to describe a piece of music?

Rjinn · 07-11-2012, 02:37 PM

Didn't think your figure of fear was that dramatic in the first place.

A lot of people tend to stick to genres a lot, that's part of the message I was trying to convey. Guess it turned out more messy than I thought.

Didn't say they weren't open minded or not. Coming from an open angle, generally speaking. Guess I just don't see the appeal and care enough to identify while I listen to music.

Describing for communication purposes is fine.

**Janszoon** · 07-11-2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinnx

Didn't say they weren't open minded or not. Coming from an open angle, generally speaking. Guess I just don't see the appeal and care enough to identify while I listen to music.

Not sure what you mean there. Are there actually people who spend so much time contemplating what sub-genre a piece of music fits into that they don't actually just enjoy the music?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinnx

Describing for communication purposes is fine.

Why else would you describe something?

Unknown Soldier · 07-11-2012, 03:11 PM

Personally, I like all the sub-genres in metal as it makes for great discussion. Sure there are too many but they do serve as a great way for grouping bands and syles of metal, despite the fact that bands within a sub-genre can sound very different but they do tend to have common traits. By putting metal bands into categories, it makes for great discussion. Before metal sub-genres kicked in, metal throughout the 1970s and early 1980s was mostly just grouped together with hard rock and bands like Iron Maiden, Kiss, UFO, Scorpions, Van Halen and AC/DC all got grouped together.

Rjinn · 07-11-2012, 03:22 PM

I'm contemplating we have different ideas of what quality is with music. But yes, I do often see a lot of people concerning themselves with what type of music they listen to more importantly, rather than credit the musicianship it should be given to.

Everyone has a right to preference. If they enjoy it, great. That's just my take.

Quote:

Why else would you describe something?

I never implied there was any other way?

Unknown Soldier · 07-11-2012, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinnx

I'm contemplating we have different ideas of what quality is with music. But yes, I do often see a lot of people concerning themselves with what type of music they listen to more importantly, rather than credit the musicianship it should be given to.

Everyone has a right to preference. If they enjoy it, great. That's just my take.

As Janszoon said, I don't see what the usage of the metal sub-genres has to do with the quality of the music, its just a covenient label and nothing more really, sometimes it does have a derogatory effect on certain bands such as those which get lumped under hair metal, nu-metal or metalcore etc, but thats about it really.

Geekoid · 07-11-2012, 05:00 PM

I see subgenres as useful mostly because I find inspiration in categorizing things in order to describe and compare/contrast them. It's like making a map of music that writes itself. Some peoples' minds like having a logical framework by which they categorize things. I happen to find classifying music is the same as appreciating its subtleties and nuances by comparing it to other music that's similar, but not exactly the same. Eventually, it stops being "analyzing" and begins to be second-nature appreciation.

Rjinn · 07-12-2012, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

As Janszoon said, I don't see what the usage of the metal sub-genres has to do with the quality of the music, its just a covenient label and nothing more really

Discussion and convenience is good for understanding why their preferences have merit. I just find musical over-analysis unnecessary. Then there are those who tend to pose for a specific genre. That's where I going with this. It had nothing to do with communication, rather what labels others were trying to live through.

Possibly should have elaborated before directing this mostly to posers. Labelling judgments can be dreary after while and shadows the music.

Yes what Jan had mentioned the expectation bar tends to heighten the music. Just suggest and I'll give it a go, discus it later. It's more of a breath of fresh air listening to it for what it is without conjuring up a million throughts while so. Then come up with ideas for discussion purpose. Label free helps prevent redundancy IMO.

I'm not innocent to this in most ways.
But I thought relaying some points would be interesting.

Holerbot6000 · 07-12-2012, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Personally, I like all the sub-genres in metal as it makes for great discussion. Sure there are too many but they do serve as a great way for grouping bands and syles of metal, despite the fact that bands within a sub-genre can sound very different but they do tend to have common traits. By putting metal bands into categories, it makes for great discussion. Before metal sub-genres kicked in, metal throughout the 1970s and early 1980s was mostly just grouped together with hard rock and bands like Iron Maiden, Kiss, UFO, Scorpions, Van Halen and AC/DC all got grouped together.

I must admit, the Metal Sub-genres were used to great effect in those VH1 documentaries about the history of Metal music. That guy did a very thoughtful breakdown, which led to some interesting discussions. I watched all of those docs and I don't even really listen to Metal.

Sub genres are also handy when you want to complain about a very specific type of music. I can say that I absolutely hate the soulless, sterile, derivative crap they call 'Modern Country' without running the risk of giving the impression that I just don't like Country in general, which I do.

On a personal level though, I like adhering to the 'Great Equalizer' of Alphabetical Order for my music collection. Putting Fred Astaire, Merzbow, The B-52's, Milanese and Hank Snow into the Carousel and hitting Shuffle Play is a great way to experience the depth and breadth of Music without getting hung up on classifications and genres, and that can be quite liberating.

**Janszoon** · 07-12-2012, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holerbot6000

I must admit, the Metal Sub-genres were used to great effect in those VH1 documentaries about the history of Metal music. That guy did a very thoughtful breakdown, which led to some interesting discussions. I watched all of those docs and I don't even really listen to Metal.

Sub genres are also handy when you want to complain about a very specific type of music. I can say that I absolutely hate the soulless, sterile, derivative crap they call 'Modern Country' without running the risk of giving the impression that I just don't like Country in general, which I do.

Heh. Good point. That's why hip hop needs more sub-genres. I need a name for all the Kanye West inspired crap out there that I don't like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holerbot6000

On a personal level though, I like adhering to the 'Great Equalizer' of Alphabetical Order for my music collection. Putting Fred Astaire, Merzbow, The B-52's, Milanese and Hank Snow into the Carousel and hitting Shuffle Play is a great way to experience the depth and breadth of Music without getting hung up on classifications and genres, and that can be quite liberating.

It certainly can be, but generally the music I feel like listening to at a given moment is based on the kind mood I'm in. I may be in the mood to shuffle every track labelled "bebop" in my collection but not death metal or country or hip hop.

07-11-2012, 02:37 PM	#7162 (permalink)
Rjinn The Aerosol in your Soul Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: New South Wales, Australia Posts: 1,546	Didn't think your figure of fear was that dramatic in the first place. A lot of people tend to stick to genres a lot, that's part of the message I was trying to convey. Guess it turned out more messy than I thought. Didn't say they weren't open minded or not. Coming from an open angle, generally speaking. Guess I just don't see the appeal and care enough to identify while I listen to music. Describing for communication purposes is fine. __________________ last.fm

07-11-2012, 05:00 PM	#7167 (permalink)
Geekoid Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 171	I see subgenres as useful mostly because I find inspiration in categorizing things in order to describe and compare/contrast them. It's like making a map of music that writes itself. Some peoples' minds like having a logical framework by which they categorize things. I happen to find classifying music is the same as appreciating its subtleties and nuances by comparing it to other music that's similar, but not exactly the same. Eventually, it stops being "analyzing" and begins to be second-nature appreciation.