Unpopular Music Opinions

duga · 06-16-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundgardenRocks

I realize this.

Machina II was the same sound as Machina I, and if were being completely honest here, the Machinas do not sound like pre-Adore Pumpkins. Billy described it as cyber proto rock or something like that. So Machina was just as new of a sound as Adore. Well, maybe not AS new considering it was guitar centered while Adore had little to no guitar. If were talking sales, the Adore sound sold better than the Machina sound. Still, 'Behold! The Night Mare' has better lyrics than anything off of Machina 2. During the Machinas he was writing lyrics that pertained to his little made up story about Glass and The Machines Of God, while during Adore he was writing about the pain of losing his mother. That's gotta count for something.

Just warning you...I have studied the Smashing Pumpkins like a religion, so I won't be able to stop myself from talking about them.

Don't misunderstand me about Adore. I love it...it is an amazing album. Lyrically, yes...it definitely is the strongest. However, I still stick to the idea that as Smashing Pumpkins and not Billy Corgan's solo project, Machina II was much much stronger. Pretend Adore never existed and go Mellon Collie to Machina to Machina II...it sounds like the natural progression the band should have been heading for the whole time. Billy Corgan even admitted that though Adore has grown on him over time, he still feels he didn't achieve the sound he was going for and considers it a failed project.

Also, Machina and Machina II sound completely different, so I'm not even sure you listened to them both the whole way through. Machina is a polished progressive "cyber punk" album as Billy puts it full of chord progressions that blend into one another (save for the few riff heavy moments like on "The Everlasting Gaze" and "Heavy Metal Machine"). Machina II maintains the progressive edge he was going for at the time while sticking to the pop sensibilities that made his other albums such hits. Honestly, if I were going to call anything cyber punk it would be Machina II and not I...I just seems like progressive alternative (yeah, I just made that genre up).

SGR · 06-16-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

Just warning you...I have studied the Smashing Pumpkins like a religion, so I won't be able to stop myself from talking about them.

Don't misunderstand me about Adore. I love it...it is an amazing album. Lyrically, yes...it definitely is the strongest. However, I still stick to the idea that as Smashing Pumpkins and not Billy Corgan's solo project, Machina II was much much stronger. Pretend Adore never existed and go Mellon Collie to Machina to Machina II...it sounds like the natural progression the band should have been heading for the whole time. Billy Corgan even admitted that though Adore has grown on him over time, he still feels he didn't achieve the sound he was going for and considers it a failed project.

Also, Machina and Machina II sound completely different, so I'm not even sure you listened to them both the whole way through. Machina is a polished progressive "cyber punk" album as Billy puts it full of chord progressions that blend into one another (save for the few riff heavy moments like on "The Everlasting Gaze" and "Heavy Metal Machine"). Machina II maintains the progressive edge he was going for at the time while sticking to the pop sensibilities that made his other albums such hits. Honestly, if I were going to call anything cyber punk it would be Machina II and not I...I just seems like progressive alternative (yeah, I just made that genre up).

Then we agree?

Smashing Pumpkins was basically one big Billy Corgan solo project. Well, Billy and Jimmy project. Machina II was definitely more of a band effort, not gonna deny that, or what you said about the progression. Billy considers Adore a failed project? That's interesting, for whatever reason, I thought he was fond of Adore.

Out of curiosity, who's your favorite bassist the pumpkins have had, and what do you think so far about TGBK?

duga · 06-16-2010, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundgardenRocks

Then we agree?

Smashing Pumpkins was basically one big Billy Corgan solo project. Well, Billy and Jimmy project. Machina II was definitely more of a band effort, not gonna deny that, or what you said about the progression. Billy considers Adore a failed project? That's interesting, for whatever reason, I thought he was fond of Adore.

Out of curiosity, who's your favorite bassist the pumpkins have had, and what do you think so far about TGBK?

Well, yeah we agree the lyrics are stronger. As a total effort, I still go with Machina II. And yes, Billy doesn't like Adore. He has said recently that since fans have warmed up to it, he has been able to as well but is still disappointed with the outcome since it wasn't the direction he was really hoping to go in.

I will always go with Darcy on bass. The SP bass player has never really been a big deal, so for me it's all about the look. She definitely had the look. Ginger was a bit too...I dunno...cute for my tastes. As for Teargarden...it is showing waaay more promise than Zeitgeist, but the spark just isn't there anymore. Then again, only one EP out of a whole **** load has come out, so I will reserve total judgment until a few more see the light of day.

SGR · 06-16-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

Well, yeah we agree the lyrics are stronger. As a total effort, I still go with Machina II. And yes, Billy doesn't like Adore. He has said recently that since fans have warmed up to it, he has been able to as well but is still disappointed with the outcome since it wasn't the direction he was really hoping to go in.

I will always go with Darcy on bass. The SP bass player has never really been a big deal, so for me it's all about the look. She definitely had the look. Ginger was a bit too...I dunno...cute for my tastes. As for Teargarden...it is showing waaay more promise than Zeitgeist, but the spark just isn't there anymore. Then again, only one EP out of a whole **** load has come out, so I will reserve total judgment until a few more see the light of day.

Ah, so you're not one of the D'arcy haters. I know Pumpkin fans who could hate all day on D'arcy about how bad of a bassist she is, even though the Pumpkins don't require anyone fancy to play bass anyway. I like 'Song For A Son' and 'A Stitch In Time' but I don't like the other two at all. I'd bet Corgan still has a ton of good tunes up his sleeve though.

boo boo · 06-16-2010, 01:58 PM

I don't care if D'arcy isn't a bass virtuoso, I want her back goddammit.

SGR · 06-16-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo boo

I don't care if D'arcy isn't a bass virtuoso, I want her back goddammit.

She's probably so high right now she doesn't even remember who James, Jimmy, and Billy were. Drugs really ruined her though.

Have you seen that picture of her with the cowboy hat? She had something done to her lips and it looks horrid. (In my humble opinion, anyway)

SATCHMO · 06-16-2010, 03:10 PM

I can't believe after reading 3 pages of musicbantery on Soundgarden/Chris cornell that there is no mention of Louder Than Love, which in my apparently unpopular opinion, is the last good album that Soundgarden produced.

duga · 06-16-2010, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO

I can't believe after reading 3 pages of musicbantery on Soundgarden/Chris cornell that there is no mention of Louder Than Love, which in my apparently unpopular opinion, is the last good album that Soundgarden produced.

Ouch. Yeah I like Louder Than Love as well, but I can't say it is my favorite. They sounded like they were still learning on that album...not to mention Ben Shepherd actually did add a lot to the group when he showed up on Badmotorfinger. His sludge bass complemented Kim Thayil's riffs perfectly.

An interesting sidenote...Louder Than Love was originally going to be called Louder Than ****. Chris Cornell had a dirty mind...

boo boo · 06-16-2010, 03:16 PM

WTF Satchmo, no love for Batmotorfinger or Superunknown at all?

Violent & Funky · 06-16-2010, 03:17 PM

D'arcy might not be very talented but her bass playing stood out more on Gish than any of the later material I have heard. The simple bass line to 'Bury Me' really grabs me:

06-16-2010, 03:17 PM	#2840 (permalink)
Violent & Funky FUNky Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Midland, MI Posts: 2,482	D'arcy might not be very talented but her bass playing stood out more on Gish than any of the later material I have heard. The simple bass line to 'Bury Me' really grabs me: __________________ http://www.last.fm/user/ohio0808 sometimes I don't thrill you sometimes I think I'll kill you just don't let me fuck up will you 'cause when I need a friend it's still you

06-16-2010, 03:10 PM	#2837 (permalink)
SATCHMO Al Dente Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,708	I can't believe after reading 3 pages of musicbantery on Soundgarden/Chris cornell that there is no mention of Louder Than Love, which in my apparently unpopular opinion, is the last good album that Soundgarden produced.