Unpopular Music Opinions

Blank. · 08-19-2016, 04:13 PM

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Originally Posted by elphenor

The whole argument is that Punk is this specific sound because Sex Pistols played nothing but power chords

Listen to a Damned record and hear the out of control guitar solos and protogoth horror rock

Listen to Television and hear the clean guitar tone and the jazzy drumnbass

Try and tell me Sandinista! doesn't count as punk

Then realize you are only scratching the surface of an incredibly loose genre held together by principles

If you still don't understand the argument, I can't help you.

Terrapin_Station · 08-19-2016, 04:52 PM

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Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

I forget, but were you the guy who said GD were prog? Not bad talking your post or anything. Just saying.

Yeah, Grateful Dead is definitely progressive rock in my view. I wouldn't argue that they're accepted as progressive rock by many people though.

OccultHawk · 08-19-2016, 05:06 PM

It's just a lack of understanding of their diversity from mostly dismissive fans.

Neapolitan · 08-19-2016, 05:10 PM

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Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

There have always been a lot of artists who were huge in the UK and almost unknown in the US, and vice versa--artists who were huge in the US and almost unknown in the UK.

Cliff Richard is a good example. In the US, he's thought of as a "two-hit wonder"--the two hits being "Devil Woman" and "We Don't Talk Anymore". Another good example is Robbie Williams. A lot of people in the US basically don't know him at all.

I think at one time Cliff Richard was a lot more popular than you think, because he was also known for his work with Andrew Lloyd Weber. Maybe there is no chart-able proof idk, but his duet with Sarah Brightman "All I Ask of You." It is just as popular to the masses as those two songs you mentioned. Notice I didn't say any like "way to advertise that you don't understand anything" because you had him pegged with only to two chart hits and not his other work. Also notice the fact that I didn't bring up that the sixth song played on the first day of MTV was a Cliff Richard song to prove he more popular than you made him out to be.

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Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

Stone the Crows and Taste are extremely obscure in the US; almost no one would know them. Re Taste, many US guitarists (around my age or older) would know Rory Gallagher's name--he was mentioned in guitar magazines like Guitar Player relatively often for example, but a much smaller percentage would be at all familiar with any of his music (and same deal with Robin Trower by the way). Savoy Brown never had much more than a cult following in the US, though they did have a solid cult following. Foghat, however, which was basically an offshoot of Savoy Brown--was HUGE in the US for awhile in the 70s and into the early 80s. In that same vein, ZZ Top was also huge.

OK if they are extremely obscure, yet I know them how can that be?

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Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

Jimi Hendrix, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Grand Funk, Bad Company, Allman Brothers Band, Ted Nugent, Aerosmith, Alice Cooper and many others in those veins were also huge in the US during the 70s (and beyond).

And for whatever reasons, a lot of people overlook Zeppelin's prog, folk/country and funk influences, which were all significant. In that vein, artists like Jethro Tull, Queen, Grateful Dead were huge in the US in the 70s, too (and beyond).

I never really got into the Grateful Dead too much, because they had too many fans, it was like a traveling cult. That whole cult-like thing freaked me out a bit and turned me off to their music. However I like CCR cause no one gives them much notice, or credit, and I like the Doors cause they get hated on. Jefferson Airplane/Spaceship was too commercially, still a few ok tunes. A big yes to Big Brother and the Holding Company. Moby Grape, yeah. QMS idk.

Jimi Hendrix died in September of 1970, his popularity only pertain to his fans, guitar players, Rock fans in general. I've meet a lot of people who didn't two ****s about him and thought he was irrelevant cause he wasn't on Top 40 radio that they listened to.

I never said that Led Zeppelin was not popular, which is something some people insisting when I defended Chula Vista's comment. Some people are mixing up what is targeted for mainstream audience with numbers of fans which Led Zeppelin had later. Something that is is ignored by mainstream media can still have a relative large amount of followers. I found nothing really wrong to Chula saying what he said about Led Zeppelin in the beginning.

Neapolitan · 08-19-2016, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

Yeah, Grateful Dead is definitely progressive rock in my view. I wouldn't argue that they're accepted as progressive rock by many people though.

GD had progressive ideas about music, but they are not Progressive Rock. I think that term should be reserved for actual "Progressive Rock" bands, maybe not for Americana bands. Like for bands from England like ELP, King Crimson, Yes, Genesis, Gentle Giant, Renaissance, England, Egg and other Prog bands from Europe etc etc etc. I considered The Greatful Dead as Acid Rock because they were part of that scene, man.

JGuy Grungeman · 08-19-2016, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

Yeah, Grateful Dead is definitely progressive rock in my view. I wouldn't argue that they're accepted as progressive rock by many people though.

Although I can see progressive influence in their live shows, I wouldn't call them a prog band. I don't think they really transcend the rock genre in the ways that prog bands do.

Terrapin_Station · 08-19-2016, 06:32 PM

Neapolitan, aren't you in the UK? You don't seem to be grasping that not everyone reached the same levels of popularity on both sides of the pond.

What are you basing your knowledge of who is/was or isn't/wasn't popular in the US on, just out of curiosity?

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the Doors cause they get hated on.

Yeah, that's a very recent phenomenon--maybe in the last 10 years or so. I still haven't figured out just what the source of the backlash is there.

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Moby Grape, yeah. QMS idk.

Both of them were always pretty "culty" in the US, by the way.

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Jimi Hendrix . . . wasn't on Top 40 radio that they listened to.

Again, in the US from the late 60s through the early 80s, only total squares/dweebs listened to top 40 radio. Top 40 radio wasn't very popular. FM album-oriented radio ruled during that era in the US.

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Some people are mixing up what is targeted for mainstream audience with numbers of fans which Led Zeppelin had later.

Led Zeppelin was massive during the time they were active, which was from 1969 to 1980. It wasn't a later phenomenon. They were popular after that, too, of course, but you keep stating things that seem like you don't believe they were popular during the 70s.

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Something that is is ignored by mainstream media can still have a relative large amount of followers.

That's true. But Led Zeppelin wasn't at all ignored by mainstream media.

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I found nothing really wrong to Chula saying what he said about Led Zeppelin in the beginning.

It would probably help if we clarify just what years we're talking about.

Terrapin_Station · 08-19-2016, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

GD had progressive ideas about music, but they are not Progressive Rock.

In my opinion, anyone who says this is telling me that they don't actually understand what makes progressive rock progressive rock. (Well, and/or they're not actually that familiar with the Dead's music.) They'd not be able to give a characterization of progressive rock that would cover all of the artists conventionally considered progressive rock, but not easily apply to artists not conventionally considered progressive rock.

So speaking of that, just how would you characterize progressive rock? I'm not necessarily asking for what's normally thought of as a definition, but as least a listing of "family resemblance" characteristics. Let's see just how well you understand what makes the genre unique.

Terrapin_Station · 08-19-2016, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

Although I can see progressive influence in their live shows, I wouldn't call them a prog band. I don't think they really transcend the rock genre in the ways that prog bands do.

"Transcend the rock genre" is extremely vague. How do you characterize progressive rock in terms of musical characteristics, where you're naming concrete, music-theoretical characteristics?

JGuy Grungeman · 08-19-2016, 06:45 PM

Basically, to experiement with the rock sound with little to klnow "avant-garde" experimentation. Most prog bands would transcend the genre by adding complexity and experimentation, but not in the same way experimental rock did. Progressive rock's customs, such as seperating songs to multiple parts, prog "epics," and psycholigical topics and concepts are some of the customs prog bands may follow. Prog these days is built upon complexity. But early in prog's stages, Pink Floyd invented many of these customs, even though their form of transcendence was similar to modern post-rock, focusing on drowning out sounds and taking a psychedelic route to create their unique form of art. I suppose that they were prog in the sense that they transcended the genre and pioneered it before it became about complexity.

08-19-2016, 06:45 PM	#12470 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	Basically, to experiement with the rock sound with little to klnow "avant-garde" experimentation. Most prog bands would transcend the genre by adding complexity and experimentation, but not in the same way experimental rock did. Progressive rock's customs, such as seperating songs to multiple parts, prog "epics," and psycholigical topics and concepts are some of the customs prog bands may follow. Prog these days is built upon complexity. But early in prog's stages, Pink Floyd invented many of these customs, even though their form of transcendence was similar to modern post-rock, focusing on drowning out sounds and taking a psychedelic route to create their unique form of art. I suppose that they were prog in the sense that they transcended the genre and pioneered it before it became about complexity. __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.

08-19-2016, 05:06 PM	#12463 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	It's just a lack of understanding of their diversity from mostly dismissive fans.