The Official Best Guitarist Thread

[Tobylotoczko]

This Haino fella, what a joke. Great as a discussion point on the difference between music and noise, but who's gonna sit back and listen to his records when theres no melody, rhythm, structure... it sounds awful. Plenty of guitarists have a whole lot of feeling AND could string a song together, this is just musical diarrhoea.

[ThePhanastasio]

If I had to pick my PERSONAL favorites, I'd go with, in no particular order:

Richard Thompson
John Fahey
Warren Haynes
Jerry Garcia
Django Reinhardt
Trey Anastasio

[Farfisa]

1:33 - 2:27

I mean, jesus... Sir Richard Bishop never ceases to amaze me.

[Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra]

Originally Posted by Tobylotoczko

This Haino fella, what a joke. Great as a discussion point on the difference between music and noise, but who's gonna sit back and listen to his records when theres no melody, rhythm, structure... it sounds awful. Plenty of guitarists have a whole lot of feeling AND could string a song together, this is just musical diarrhoea.

Yes, but all of them follow templated patterns which are pioneered for them. Haino practically reinvents an instrument, and it's possibilities.

It's completely illogical to say 'string a song together' as if that were difficult. To write a verse chorus song, then slap a fancy solo in the bridge is the easiest thing in the world to do. It's what made 80s hair metal so ****ing boring.

Haino does not benefit from these things for a reason. You have to remember he's an IMPROVISER which means, you can throw structure out the window. As for rhythm, in that video with Tatsuya Yoshida he's very very clearly playing off the rhythm of the other two parties involved, even if he's employing discord rather than harmony. Just because it's an odd/complex rhythm it doesn't mean it's not there. Definitely if there's a sense of anything in those jams it's rhythm.

As for 'awful'... That's just like an old lady complaining about a film being too violent. It's not 'awful' it's 'unpleasent', and that's the point. Some of Haino's work is incredibly melodic, and accessible. Very little, mind you, but some. However, ugly doesn't make bad art, my friend. Sometimes the most grotesque things sell the best point, and there's no reason why music should be any different.

The topic of the thread is 'best guitarist' not 'best composer', and what I interpret is 'best at utilizing the instrument of guitar'. Haino's work by far, as strange as it may be, is probably some of the most emotionally driving, unique, versatile work anyone has done. As an guitarist, he can spontaneously(note: improvised) produce the strongest 'voice' of any guitarist I've ever heard. Give him 30 minutes, and he'll knock you into another ****ing world.

You just have to open your mind.

This is exactly what bothers me about 'guitar guys'. In a sense, the clamor for a more spiritual, emotional experience with guitar like the instrument had back in the old days of blues(and seriously, older bluesman were not technicians by any means), but then when it comes to somebody who actually does reflect that emotion(even if in a non-blues form), it's not accepted because it's 'different' therefore bizarrely characterized as somehow improper.

Then, in his place, they worship people who blandly take the chord structures of old bluesman, sanitize them to emotional oblivion, then speed them up 100,000x times. Only feigning emotion by throwing in the off ballad with ridiculously cheesy pitch bends. Then, return to the blind shredding. As if music is about nothing more than how fast you can synchronize with a metronomic pattern.

Haino is legit, and he plays in a way that shows he actually gets emotional feedback from his instrument. Furthermore, there are moments that show he knows his way around the instrument. He just abstracts it because the tone, and raw emotion is more important than proving how big his cock is.

If you ask me, THAT is what makes a good guitarist. I it's unpleasant, who gives a ****? Life is unpleasant.

[TockTockTock]

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Yes, but all of them follow templated patterns which are pioneered for them. Haino practically reinvents an instrument, and it's possibilities.

It's completely illogical to say 'string a song together' as if that were difficult. To write a verse chorus song, then slap a fancy solo in the bridge is the easiest thing in the world to do. It's what made 80s hair metal so ****ing boring.

Haino does not benefit from these things for a reason. You have to remember he's an IMPROVISER which means, you can throw structure out the window. As for rhythm, in that video with Tatsuya Yoshida he's very very clearly playing off the rhythm of the other two parties involved, even if he's employing discord rather than harmony. Just because it's an odd/complex rhythm it doesn't mean it's not there. Definitely if there's a sense of anything in those jams it's rhythm.

As for 'awful'... That's just like an old lady complaining about a film being too violent. It's not 'awful' it's 'unpleasent', and that's the point. Some of Haino's work is incredibly melodic, and accessible. Very little, mind you, but some. However, ugly doesn't make bad art, my friend. Sometimes the most grotesque things sell the best point, and there's no reason why music should be any different.

The topic of the thread is 'best guitarist' not 'best composer', and what I interpret is 'best at utilizing the instrument of guitar'. Haino's work by far, as strange as it may be, is probably some of the most emotionally driving, unique, versatile work anyone has done. As an guitarist, he can spontaneously(note: improvised) produce the strongest 'voice' of any guitarist I've ever heard. Give him 30 minutes, and he'll knock you into another ****ing world.

You just have to open your mind.

This is exactly what bothers me about 'guitar guys'. In a sense, the clamor for a more spiritual, emotional experience with guitar like the instrument had back in the old days of blues(and seriously, older bluesman were not technicians by any means), but then when it comes to somebody who actually does reflect that emotion(even if in a non-blues form), it's not accepted because it's 'different' therefore bizarrely characterized as somehow improper.

Then, in his place, they worship people who blandly take the chord structures of old bluesman, sanitize them to emotional oblivion, then speed them up 100,000x times. Only feigning emotion by throwing in the off ballad with ridiculously cheesy pitch bends. Then, return to the blind shredding. As if music is about nothing more than how fast you can synchronize with a metronomic pattern.

Haino is legit, and he plays in a way that shows he actually gets emotional feedback from his instrument. Furthermore, there are moments that show he knows his way around the instrument. He just abstracts it because the tone, and raw emotion is more important than proving how big his cock is.

If you ask me, THAT is what makes a good guitarist. I it's unpleasant, who gives a ****? Life is unpleasant.

Well said! This is probably one of your best posts, Ska.

Anyways, here's an accessible song by Haino, and it's downright beautiful in my opinion (the guitar playing is somewhat reminiscent of Watashi Dake -- his debut album).



Also keep in mind he's a talented singer and an interesting percussionist. He plays instruments ranging anywhere from the hurdy-gurdy to the turntables. He has also dabbled in genres such as: noise, psychedelic rock, ambient and drone, blues, free improvisation, avant-folk, noise rock, and various forms of jazz.

[Phantom Limb]

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

That drummer kills it. Haino is pretty crazy though. I'm actually fairly certain that lots of people could play like him, but most people just don't because it's unpleasant to listen to. All you have to do is get into the free-jazz mindset and just play random notes in a spastic manner.

[Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra]

Originally Posted by Phantom Limb

get into the free-jazz mindset

How would one go about that?

Suppose, I live by a theory that if you outcast all of the rules, and still shine, it means something. I mean, there are thousands of free jazz musicians, few garner so much respect or notoriety. One could say it's easy to 'play that way', but there must be something deep under the surface for those who do, and rise up. Otherwise, they wouldn't really exist in the first place.

Sonny Sharrock is a great example. He slathers everything he does with squeels, and discord, but is considered a legend. Honestly, I think there's something 'beyond notes' going on there (albeit, Sharrock himself is hit and miss, imo.).

[blastingas10]

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Yes, but all of them follow templated patterns which are pioneered for them.

It's music! Of course people follow a template. But there are so many different note and chord combinations and so many different things you can do with that template. Mr. Haino is just trying to be experimental and different. Any good guitarist could play like him, but they'd have to sacrifice their musicianship.

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Honestly, I think there's something 'beyond notes' going on there

I see what you're saying. He's going beyond the conventions of music. It's just not my cup of tea. My retarded brother plays like that when he occasionally picks up my guitar. I've even told him before, "You're redefining the way the guitar is played."

[TockTockTock]

Originally Posted by blastingas10

Any good guitarist could play like him, but they'd have to sacrifice their musicianship.

You mean they would have to sacrifice most of what they know about conventional music and start almost completely over. You see... not many people are capable of doing that. So, no, not any "good guitarist" could play like him.

[Phantom Limb]

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

How would one go about that?

Suppose, I live by a theory that if you outcast all of the rules, and still shine, it means something. I mean, there are thousands of free jazz musicians, few garner so much respect or notoriety. One could say it's easy to 'play that way', but there must be something deep under the surface for those who do, and rise up. Otherwise, they wouldn't really exist in the first place.

Sonny Sharrock is a great example. He slathers everything he does with squeels, and discord, but is considered a legend. Honestly, I think there's something 'beyond notes' going on there (albeit, Sharrock himself is hit and miss, imo.).

All I'm saying is that I could probably play as well as Haino.