Brits Vs Yanks

Comus · 05-10-2009, 03:57 PM

Well, while there were the great bands such as the Sonics, Frank Zappa, Hendrix and the Doors, they had to contend with the likes of The Pretty Things, Pink Floyd, The Rolling Stones, King Crimson, David Bowie, Cream, The Yardbirds and others like that. Sure, a lot of this is in the latter part of the 60's. And yes the US had jazz, but they'd already won the 50's because of their Jazz and blues.

**Janszoon** · 05-10-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

i'd say they were pretty evenly matched during this era. while Britain had bigger bands to come out at the time, America contributed significantly to get the psych/garage ball rolling. not to mention '60s jazz, motown, southern rock, and Beefheart which all occurred almost wholly in America.

^I totally agree with all of this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comus

Well, while there were the great bands such as the Sonics, Frank Zappa, Hendrix and the Doors, they had to contend with the likes of The Pretty Things, Pink Floyd, The Rolling Stones, King Crimson, David Bowie, Cream, The Yardbirds and others like that. Sure, a lot of this is in the latter part of the 60's. And yes the US had jazz, but they'd already won the 50's because of their Jazz and blues.

So if they won the 50s because of jazz they can't win the 60s because of jazz? I don't understand the logic there.

Comus · 05-10-2009, 04:05 PM

Well in my opinon the 50's had the best Jazz, by far, and as such 60's was a bit of a letdown, you can't really win by being worse. I'll agree it's very evenly matched, but the US is very definitely edged out by the UK on the back of great guitarists and musical minds. Not to mention folk.

SATCHMO · 05-10-2009, 04:06 PM

It puzzles me that we always seem to use the 50's as the starting point (not picking on you comus, we all do it). It was the beginning of the rock-based paradigm, but the foundation of everything we listen to today goes back much further than this.

Comus · 05-10-2009, 04:10 PM

Well, it's what we're all familiar with, especially since most music recorded before the 50's was either singles or is very hard to get now. And then go even further back and everything becomes compositions, that are still played by the major orchestras, but no one is going to remember the years that Beethoven was active unless they're a bit classical buff.

**Janszoon** · 05-10-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comus

Well in my opinon the 50's had the best Jazz, by far, and as such 60's was a bit of a letdown, you can't really win by being worse. I'll agree it's very evenly matched, but the US is very definitely edged out by the UK on the back of great guitarists and musical minds.

I like 50s jazz a lot but, come on, 60s jazz was fantastic too and far more eclectic and experimental.

Comus · 05-10-2009, 04:16 PM

Miles Davis, Bud Powell, Sonny Rollins, Thelonius Monk, Ella Fitzgerald, Charles Mingus etc all recorded their best material in the 50's. Only Comparable artist that was superior in the 60's that I can remember right now is Coltrane.

**Janszoon** · 05-10-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO

It puzzles me that we always seem to use the 50's as the starting point (not picking on you comus, we all do it). It was the beginning of the rock-based paradigm, but the foundation of everything we listen to today goes back much further than this.

That's true but think Comus is right, it has to do with how recording changed in the 1950s. It's really the first decade where you can talk about specific albums by an artist. Prior to that music wasn't really released in the same way. Not to dismiss music before the 50s at all, I love a lot of it, but there really aren't classic albums you can point to pre-50s. Classic songs and classic performances definitely, but not really classic albums.

**Janszoon** · 05-10-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comus

Miles Davis, Bud Powell, Sonny Rollins, Thelonius Monk, Ella Fitzgerald, Charles Mingus etc all recorded their best material in the 50's. Only Comparable artist that was superior in the 60's that I can remember right now is Coltrane.

I agree with you about Monk but I think Mingus' and Miles' 60s output was about equal to their 50s output (the other three I'm not enough of a fan of to comment one way or the other). And then of course you have people like Sun Ra, Eric Dolphy and Charlie Haden who were releasing their best stuff in the 60s.

Comus · 05-10-2009, 04:39 PM

I might just not have been exposed to enough later jazz, but I've always preferred the 50's stuff of the artists mentioned. At the end of the day it's such an expansive genre and the artists in question are so prolific that it can be hard to define a better era, from what I've heard, the 50's win it hands down, but maybe I haven't heard the right 60's stuff. Either way all this talking about jazz has really got me in the mood. I'm guessing the next few albums (after the one I'm doing atm) in my 1001 list are going to be jazzy :p

05-10-2009, 04:06 PM	#684 (permalink)
SATCHMO Al Dente Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,708	It puzzles me that we always seem to use the 50's as the starting point (not picking on you comus, we all do it). It was the beginning of the rock-based paradigm, but the foundation of everything we listen to today goes back much further than this.