Northern Soul

krissi · 05-27-2009, 03:43 AM

"These Northern Soul tracks. They were being released by Americans; Were they aware of The Northern Soul market and react by producing more records like that? Surely it can't have been a coincidence that there were so many? Where do Stax Records fit into all this? I remember that Stax were really prominent around then."

the tragic thing about it is that most still dont know that they were ever danced to by us here in the uk throughout our teens and beyond... some even passed on without knowing they were loved and demanded here in the UK...

some people found out and made the scene even healthier.. even motown legends like brenda holloway and edwin starr moved to the uk and performed regularly here to the underground clubs.

there were so many i suppose because everyone had a message for the world in young black america, there were so many demos and promotional records cut that were never intended for release because the only 2 radio stations in the area that had got it had said they wouldnt play it, or some other weak reason, and no one was interested in them. they sat on shelves in record shops, unwanted throughout the 60s and many of the singers moved on to other things, assuming they'd never made it. it wasnt really until certain people in the north of the uk realised there was a whole goldmine of motown-like vinyl in america (people like richard searling/kev roberts/ian levine/russ winstanley/keith minshull and many many more) and flew over to the states to try and get hold of some of this amazing new raw music.... and then the search was on!

as the hype grew and grew around the north, more and more people went to "discover" these tunes nobody had wanted 5-10 years previously... often tracking record shop owners, cutting engineers, session musicians and their families etc and finding out the history behind the songs, all of which is well documented now, and most soulheads know anyway....

it got to the point that so many people were getting hold of these exclusive tunes that nobody else could get that the vinyl collecting aspect of it started majorly, people desparate to get the only 3 copies that were ever made of a record, and then get the status and the dj bookings for having the rarest collection....

"cover ups" - like i say, the vinyl collecting youth of northern england were off in a frenzy, finding more and more tunes that DESERVE their place in musical history, instead of rotting in an american basement eternally... but the problem was if they told everyone else everything about the record at the time, everyone else could trace their steps and find copies also, so dj's often make their own labels to the vinyl with fake names and titles on the record, to send other jealous people off on a wild goose chase, finding no information on the record they so desparately wanted!

a good example of this is a tune called "double cookin'" by the checkerboard squares. it's an instrumental tune, no lyrics, no clues, and i only found out about 10 years ago that the copy i had was totally wrong... until the late 90s i thought it was called "strings a go go" by the bob wilson sounds... fine example of a cover up and a wild goose chase lol it had me foxed!!

krissi · 05-27-2009, 03:48 AM

I mentioned some names before, I need to clarify my opinion on Ian Levine, as he helped northern soul and then ruined it in the 80s!! he was the resident dj at Blackpool Mecca, the first 'soul club' that took a risk and started playing 70s soul as well as the powerful stomping 60s beats that kept the whizzing ravers of wigan, stoke and manchester going till the next morning....

one of the first tunes he took a major risk on playing was a tune called "it really hurts me girl" by the Carstairs... which became an ANTHEM across soul nights everywhere.

there are many subdivisions within northern soul now as a result of that, some hardcore mods and soulheads still cant accept the 70s sound, so it became known as crossover, and then there were divisions within the scene. some people just wanted the stompers from the 60s, some were craving the 70s crossover style, and a new breed of people started to creep into the scene as well, often in a different room to the 'main' room, playing slow jams, RnB, and "modern" soul....

all of that is fine, apart from mr levine had the 'wise' idea of tracking down many of the singers from the 60s tunes we all still love, and managing to convince them that he could revive their careers if they let him remix their music, or recorded new material for him. if he'd have hired the ORIGINAL session musicians we all loved from the 60s recordings, the funk brothers, richard popcorn wylie, willie mitchell etc... he'd have been an absolute hero to millions, i swear to you on my life, he could have been as big as elvis to people in the uk. but.... he DIDNT hire original musicians. sh*t, he didnt even hire musicians at all.

EVERY track ive EVER heard that ian levine has even breathed near has been ruined with 80s drums, fake strings, pianos, vibraphones, EVERYTHING about levine produced soul has come from a synth of some kind, i absolutely DETEST IT!!!!!!!!!!

so there you go, mr half good half bad levine, he brought a whole new decade of soul to the ravers, but then ballsed it up trying to remix everything everyone loved in the 80s!

plus that doctor who comment i read before was very interesting... it could definitely be him hahaaha

krissi · 05-27-2009, 03:57 AM

ok next post lol british attempts at northern.... same as levine... considered as selling out, and really i suppose thats what ruined the casino as well....

uk attempts at the northern sound...

wigan's ovation - skiing in the snow (spark records)
a cover of the invitations 60s tune... wigans ovation also put an album out in '75 called northern soul dancer, and its crap lol

wayne gibson - under my thumb (pye 'disco demand' records)
pye's owner, dave macleer is supposed to like northern soul, yet in the 70s he saw it as a cash opportunity, and started his 'disco demand' label. i havent got a clue who wayne gibson is, other than hes white and has a moustache. the song "under my thumb" is originally by the rolling stones, hence its rejection by hardcore soul fans... it was just thrown onto a 'northern' beat and put out in the uk to try and cash in on the hype of northern soul. there are probably top of the pops performances on youtube, it wouldnt surprise me.

wigan's chosen few - footsee (pye "disco demand")
again, on the sellout label of 'disco demand', this tune is a random one. its fairly convincing at the start that it could be an original northern tune, but i'm fairly sure it isn't. the middle bit of it still confuses me, it stops and has airhorns and claves in the middle over a crowd cheering, and then just carries on as if it never happened... random.

can't think of any more but there are more....

krissi · 05-27-2009, 04:05 AM

oh and ill tell u a story which i hate to admit is true. i HATE the fact this story really happened, for real, im still angry about it to this day.

i mentioned cover up's before.... make your own label and pretend the song you have is by someone else, right?

in the 70s a song turned up which was believed to be a lost song from the 60s, what was thought to be an alternate vocal to the song "i'll do anything" which up until then, the only copy had been by a female singer called doris troy....

this new exciting male version was by Lenny Gamble, or at least thats what the label said....

many people went to find information on Lenny Gamble, who was he? where was he from? where was he now?

time passed and still nobody had any information on this new tune.... but then....!!!!!!!!

NOEL EDMONDS on his radio one show admitted that the record was by TONY BLACKBURN under a different name...

shock and chaos erupted in the underground of the north... was he lying? surely he was only winding us up? no? NO!

TONY F**KING BLACKBURN had CONNED the ENTIRE SOUL COMMUNITY, i think it was all richard searling's fault for inflicting it on us in the first place... but anyway, wigan was tainted after tony blackburn managed to push a fake 'rare' record into the heart of it...

makes me sick grrrr

next rant... anyone else noticed soul nights BPMs have got REALLY slow recently?!

and its more about the price and rarity of the vinyl than the actual music nowadays?

krissi · 05-27-2009, 04:15 AM

So... Wigan Casino DJs were known for stompers and Blackpool Mecca for the 'floaters'... These happen to be the installments of the excellent 'Northern Soul Story' comps I'm missing (the other two of course being Twisted Wheel and Golden Torch).

Does anybody have these on CD because they are a steal on amazon right now (THREE QUID A SHOT) and I can't find out if there are any complementary sleeve notes to make it worth the 'expense'?

lol are you joking? 3 quid and you're complaining?!

the torch album is AMAZING, sleeve notes or not... you'll NEVER get any of the songs on it for £3... add a few more 0's on the end mate.

trying to think whats on it off the top of my head...

Sam & Kitty - I've Got Something Good
Ed Crook - That's Alright
Roy Hamilton - Crackin' Up Over You
Fuller Bros - Time's A Wastin'
Rufus Lumley - I'm Standin'
Cavaliers - Hold On To My Baby
JJ Barnes - Our Love Is In The Pocket

There's easy £1000 at least just in that list lol

Ed Crook - That's Alright is a life changing tune (at least it was for me)

krissi · 05-27-2009, 04:19 AM

Torch was in stoke by the way just to clarify...

Twisted wheel... let me find it...

lots of stompers... the wheel concentrated more on stompers and rnb stuff... some proper funky tunes on here as well

Roscoe Robinson - That's Enough (fairly easy to get elsewhere not that rare)
Darrell Banks - Open The Door To Your Heart (again not that rare but its the roots)
Willie Mitchell - That Driving Beat (i paid £30 for this on vinyl = 10x the cd price on its own)
Incredibles - Nothing Else To Say

thats probably all id listen to off that album personally but im very selective with what i like and what i dont lol

MURDER JUNKIE · 05-27-2009, 11:05 AM

WOW!!!

9 posts in a row

I'm sure RT will forgive this sin though because it is in his beloved thread

Seltzer · 05-27-2009, 11:15 AM

The only reason I didn't delete them is because I thought he might want to see them.

right-track · 05-27-2009, 12:18 PM

Bleedin' hell krissi you're as obsessed as I am...typical soulie.

btw...congratulations on destroying the multiple post record with a straight 9 in a row.
Normally worthy of an infraction if for the fact your posts are packed with detail.

Good to see another Northern Soul mentalist on the forum.

And you're spot on about Tony Fucking Blackburn an all!

krissi · 05-28-2009, 11:53 AM

hahahaha thanks for not deleting them... i HAD to post some youtube links before i went to bed lol

there will be more rants soon...

05-27-2009, 11:15 AM	#178 (permalink)
Seltzer Fish in the percolator! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Hobbit Land NZ Posts: 2,870	The only reason I didn't delete them is because I thought he might want to see them. __________________ In the Court of King Crimson \| Last.fm \| RYM

05-27-2009, 03:43 AM	#171 (permalink)
krissi Groupie Join Date: May 2009 Location: north west UK Posts: 39	"These Northern Soul tracks. They were being released by Americans; Were they aware of The Northern Soul market and react by producing more records like that? Surely it can't have been a coincidence that there were so many? Where do Stax Records fit into all this? I remember that Stax were really prominent around then." the tragic thing about it is that most still dont know that they were ever danced to by us here in the uk throughout our teens and beyond... some even passed on without knowing they were loved and demanded here in the UK... some people found out and made the scene even healthier.. even motown legends like brenda holloway and edwin starr moved to the uk and performed regularly here to the underground clubs. there were so many i suppose because everyone had a message for the world in young black america, there were so many demos and promotional records cut that were never intended for release because the only 2 radio stations in the area that had got it had said they wouldnt play it, or some other weak reason, and no one was interested in them. they sat on shelves in record shops, unwanted throughout the 60s and many of the singers moved on to other things, assuming they'd never made it. it wasnt really until certain people in the north of the uk realised there was a whole goldmine of motown-like vinyl in america (people like richard searling/kev roberts/ian levine/russ winstanley/keith minshull and many many more) and flew over to the states to try and get hold of some of this amazing new raw music.... and then the search was on! as the hype grew and grew around the north, more and more people went to "discover" these tunes nobody had wanted 5-10 years previously... often tracking record shop owners, cutting engineers, session musicians and their families etc and finding out the history behind the songs, all of which is well documented now, and most soulheads know anyway.... it got to the point that so many people were getting hold of these exclusive tunes that nobody else could get that the vinyl collecting aspect of it started majorly, people desparate to get the only 3 copies that were ever made of a record, and then get the status and the dj bookings for having the rarest collection.... "cover ups" - like i say, the vinyl collecting youth of northern england were off in a frenzy, finding more and more tunes that DESERVE their place in musical history, instead of rotting in an american basement eternally... but the problem was if they told everyone else everything about the record at the time, everyone else could trace their steps and find copies also, so dj's often make their own labels to the vinyl with fake names and titles on the record, to send other jealous people off on a wild goose chase, finding no information on the record they so desparately wanted! a good example of this is a tune called "double cookin'" by the checkerboard squares. it's an instrumental tune, no lyrics, no clues, and i only found out about 10 years ago that the copy i had was totally wrong... until the late 90s i thought it was called "strings a go go" by the bob wilson sounds... fine example of a cover up and a wild goose chase lol it had me foxed!!

05-27-2009, 03:48 AM	#172 (permalink)
krissi Groupie Join Date: May 2009 Location: north west UK Posts: 39	I mentioned some names before, I need to clarify my opinion on Ian Levine, as he helped northern soul and then ruined it in the 80s!! he was the resident dj at Blackpool Mecca, the first 'soul club' that took a risk and started playing 70s soul as well as the powerful stomping 60s beats that kept the whizzing ravers of wigan, stoke and manchester going till the next morning.... one of the first tunes he took a major risk on playing was a tune called "it really hurts me girl" by the Carstairs... which became an ANTHEM across soul nights everywhere. there are many subdivisions within northern soul now as a result of that, some hardcore mods and soulheads still cant accept the 70s sound, so it became known as crossover, and then there were divisions within the scene. some people just wanted the stompers from the 60s, some were craving the 70s crossover style, and a new breed of people started to creep into the scene as well, often in a different room to the 'main' room, playing slow jams, RnB, and "modern" soul.... all of that is fine, apart from mr levine had the 'wise' idea of tracking down many of the singers from the 60s tunes we all still love, and managing to convince them that he could revive their careers if they let him remix their music, or recorded new material for him. if he'd have hired the ORIGINAL session musicians we all loved from the 60s recordings, the funk brothers, richard popcorn wylie, willie mitchell etc... he'd have been an absolute hero to millions, i swear to you on my life, he could have been as big as elvis to people in the uk. but.... he DIDNT hire original musicians. sh*t, he didnt even hire musicians at all. EVERY track ive EVER heard that ian levine has even breathed near has been ruined with 80s drums, fake strings, pianos, vibraphones, EVERYTHING about levine produced soul has come from a synth of some kind, i absolutely DETEST IT!!!!!!!!!! so there you go, mr half good half bad levine, he brought a whole new decade of soul to the ravers, but then ballsed it up trying to remix everything everyone loved in the 80s! plus that doctor who comment i read before was very interesting... it could definitely be him hahaaha

05-27-2009, 03:57 AM	#173 (permalink)
krissi Groupie Join Date: May 2009 Location: north west UK Posts: 39	ok next post lol british attempts at northern.... same as levine... considered as selling out, and really i suppose thats what ruined the casino as well.... uk attempts at the northern sound... wigan's ovation - skiing in the snow (spark records) a cover of the invitations 60s tune... wigans ovation also put an album out in '75 called northern soul dancer, and its crap lol wayne gibson - under my thumb (pye 'disco demand' records) pye's owner, dave macleer is supposed to like northern soul, yet in the 70s he saw it as a cash opportunity, and started his 'disco demand' label. i havent got a clue who wayne gibson is, other than hes white and has a moustache. the song "under my thumb" is originally by the rolling stones, hence its rejection by hardcore soul fans... it was just thrown onto a 'northern' beat and put out in the uk to try and cash in on the hype of northern soul. there are probably top of the pops performances on youtube, it wouldnt surprise me. wigan's chosen few - footsee (pye "disco demand") again, on the sellout label of 'disco demand', this tune is a random one. its fairly convincing at the start that it could be an original northern tune, but i'm fairly sure it isn't. the middle bit of it still confuses me, it stops and has airhorns and claves in the middle over a crowd cheering, and then just carries on as if it never happened... random. can't think of any more but there are more....

05-27-2009, 04:05 AM	#174 (permalink)
krissi Groupie Join Date: May 2009 Location: north west UK Posts: 39	oh and ill tell u a story which i hate to admit is true. i HATE the fact this story really happened, for real, im still angry about it to this day. i mentioned cover up's before.... make your own label and pretend the song you have is by someone else, right? in the 70s a song turned up which was believed to be a lost song from the 60s, what was thought to be an alternate vocal to the song "i'll do anything" which up until then, the only copy had been by a female singer called doris troy.... this new exciting male version was by Lenny Gamble, or at least thats what the label said.... many people went to find information on Lenny Gamble, who was he? where was he from? where was he now? time passed and still nobody had any information on this new tune.... but then....!!!!!!!! NOEL EDMONDS on his radio one show admitted that the record was by TONY BLACKBURN under a different name... shock and chaos erupted in the underground of the north... was he lying? surely he was only winding us up? no? NO! TONY F**KING BLACKBURN had CONNED the ENTIRE SOUL COMMUNITY, i think it was all richard searling's fault for inflicting it on us in the first place... but anyway, wigan was tainted after tony blackburn managed to push a fake 'rare' record into the heart of it... makes me sick grrrr next rant... anyone else noticed soul nights BPMs have got REALLY slow recently?! and its more about the price and rarity of the vinyl than the actual music nowadays?

05-27-2009, 04:15 AM	#175 (permalink)
krissi Groupie Join Date: May 2009 Location: north west UK Posts: 39	So... Wigan Casino DJs were known for stompers and Blackpool Mecca for the 'floaters'... These happen to be the installments of the excellent 'Northern Soul Story' comps I'm missing (the other two of course being Twisted Wheel and Golden Torch). Does anybody have these on CD because they are a steal on amazon right now (THREE QUID A SHOT) and I can't find out if there are any complementary sleeve notes to make it worth the 'expense'? lol are you joking? 3 quid and you're complaining?! the torch album is AMAZING, sleeve notes or not... you'll NEVER get any of the songs on it for £3... add a few more 0's on the end mate. trying to think whats on it off the top of my head... Sam & Kitty - I've Got Something Good Ed Crook - That's Alright Roy Hamilton - Crackin' Up Over You Fuller Bros - Time's A Wastin' Rufus Lumley - I'm Standin' Cavaliers - Hold On To My Baby JJ Barnes - Our Love Is In The Pocket There's easy £1000 at least just in that list lol Ed Crook - That's Alright is a life changing tune (at least it was for me)

05-27-2009, 04:19 AM	#176 (permalink)
krissi Groupie Join Date: May 2009 Location: north west UK Posts: 39	Torch was in stoke by the way just to clarify... Twisted wheel... let me find it... lots of stompers... the wheel concentrated more on stompers and rnb stuff... some proper funky tunes on here as well Roscoe Robinson - That's Enough (fairly easy to get elsewhere not that rare) Darrell Banks - Open The Door To Your Heart (again not that rare but its the roots) Willie Mitchell - That Driving Beat (i paid £30 for this on vinyl = 10x the cd price on its own) Incredibles - Nothing Else To Say thats probably all id listen to off that album personally but im very selective with what i like and what i dont lol

05-27-2009, 11:05 AM	#177 (permalink)
MURDER JUNKIE The Wetter The Better!! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SH1TTY London Ontario Canada Posts: 2,504	WOW!!! 9 posts in a row I'm sure RT will forgive this sin though because it is in his beloved thread

05-27-2009, 12:18 PM	#179 (permalink)
right-track Atchin' Akai Join Date: May 2005 Location: Unamerica Posts: 8,723	Bleedin' hell krissi you're as obsessed as I am...typical soulie. btw...congratulations on destroying the multiple post record with a straight 9 in a row. Normally worthy of an infraction if for the fact your posts are packed with detail. Good to see another Northern Soul mentalist on the forum. And you're spot on about Tony Fucking Blackburn an all!

05-28-2009, 11:53 AM	#180 (permalink)
krissi Groupie Join Date: May 2009 Location: north west UK Posts: 39	hahahaha thanks for not deleting them... i HAD to post some youtube links before i went to bed lol there will be more rants soon...