barbarella

^

RT I would like to ask- These Northern Soul tracks. They were being released by Americans; Were they aware of The Northern Soul market and react by producing more records like that? Surely it can't have been a coincidence that there were so many? Where do Stax Records fit into all this? I remember that Stax were really prominent around then.

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Below Zero.

right-track

No, not really.
After a visit to The Twisted Wheel club, David Godin (Blues & Soul magazine) coined the term 'Northern Soul' because of the high tempo soul that was being played in the north of England. Motown Soul wasn't usually that upbeat so the DJ's took the records from smaller, lesser known U.S soul labels.
After the closure of The Twisted Wheel and The Golden Torch club the scene moved over to Wigan Casino and The Mecca etc.
Throughout the seventies the DJ's continued to take records from the small labels.
Some DJ'S and enthusiasts (Levine and Soussan?(sp) would travel to the U.S. and visit the warehouses for 1960's uptempo R&B.
They'd even take along a small record player and go through piles of singles giving each single about 30 seconds play...if it was danceable...they took it back with them to England
Basically, you had a Northern Soul scene taking place in the 70's that would be playing, almost exclusively, rare 1960's soul records. Some of these records never even charted.
In some cases they only ever got as far as Radio demo's and never even went into production.
Take Frank Wilson's 'Do I Love You' as a perfect example. This record went to press with only a limited run.
Gordy wanted Wilson to be a songwriter and not a singer so the record was shelved and most of the pressings were destroyed...all except a few.
Maybe 2 or 3 at the most. Only two copies (as far as I know exists) and are worth a small fortune to a collector.
Some NS tracks weren't even released as demo copies, but only exist on a master tape.
Most of the songs only enjoyed a limited, 'local' success in the areas that the labels were based at the time they were recorded during the 60's, but would go on to become Northern Soul standards during the 70's.

right-track

^ I'm assuming you knew some of that...if so, just say.

barbarella

No, not really! I remember some stuff, but I'm more in the "Novice" class! lol!
I do know though, that The Twisted Wheel is still on the go today, and that Musical Walking Tours of Manchester include that venue. I also mentioned previously that Northern Soul records are pretty easy to find, as they're always in with the Funk stuff- I've since found this only applies to Central Manchester. It's obvious there's still a thriving market there!
How much British Northern Soul was produced? On The Disco-Funk side there were very few successful attempts: pretty much just Average White Band and Hi-Tension, probably the trick was to fool people into thinking you were American! So I'm assuming that The British attempt at Northern Soul foundered in the same way. But of course RT, you may well know different!

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Below Zero.

right-track

The Twisted Wheel club is still doing soul nights. Not that long ago though (a few years back) I'm almost certain it was a gay bar?
Are you referring to CD's, or vinyl in central Manchester?
If it's CD's, they're everywhere.
If you mean vinyl, then Beatin' Rhythm on Tibb St. takes some beating. Well worth a visit.
There was an effort to make British Northern Soul as I'm sure you know...see Wigan's Chosen Few and Skiing in the Snow. Bad mistake IMO.
Ian Levine had some of the original artists re-record their songs with mixed results. Interesting to see though. He may even have been involved with one or two bands in an attempt to recreate it...not entirely sure.

barbarella

RT- If these records were already obsolete when they were picked up in the 70's there must be very few of them about? How many would have been pressed when they were originally released if they were on small labels, as I guess that would have been before Motown managed to make soul music acceptable across the different cultures in American Society. Who would have been buying them in the 60's? Btw, we're curious to know if you have an original copy of "Right Track" !?

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Below Zero.

right-track

The smaller labels were around because of Motown...only Motown had the monopoly.
One of the reasons why the smaller labels had less success.
A lot of them were subsidiaries of bigger labels. Some more successful than others and obviously depending on sales made would determine how many would be pressed.
Like I said earlier, some of the songs only enjoyed local popularity.
Some labels were rarer than others. Shrine Records probably being the rarest label and anything from there demands a high price.

And I have an original copy.
Not particularly rare. I've seen copies going for around £15 depending on the condition.
There's a radio station copy with a white label I wouldn't mind owning too.

krissi

yeah the twisted wheel was a *** club for a bit...

some of these records were made in small basements all in one room, motown only had the monopoly because it had money.

berry gordy jr was a boxer before he opened up hitsville, he definitely had some money.

im tryin to get to 15 posts so i can put up some serious tunes for u all because it's killing me seeing you all mix up things like otis redding and heatwave etc with northern soul... you should all go to a soul night at some point this year and experience it full on... its a world phenomenon now... it will be near you somewhere...

keep the faith

krissi

ok an example... "the right track" by billy butler was released on Okeh Records in the US, and Epic here... it's not THAT rare to get a copy, there are some instrumentals floating around on Okeh as well...

most people will try and get the original original issue, its a piece of history. to some its just a piece of plastic, but i swear in golborne ive seen a guy swap his mercedes car keys for a 7'' record straight off the platter and walk away holding it like it was a winning lottery ticket...

northern soul vinyl goes hand in hand with the scene... no cd's, has to be the original vinyl if you ever want to become a soul dj lol

krissi

you'd probably find the right track on a Direction! LP as well, it has been issued many many times to CD now though in the UK...

plus again the advantage of being in north uk is you can go to the best shops for it...

'discount disc' in hanley, stoke on trent is owned by kev roberts (one of the original soul djs.. his vinyl is worth an unthinkable amount of money) and they stock pretty much every cd that has northern soul vinyl restored and issued...

the best 2 companies that make cd's of rare soul vinyl are "kent" and "goldmine soul supply".... there are others as well like "ace" and "charly" but they do blues and stuff as well...

as soon as i get these 15 posts ill get some youtube links on the go