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Burning Down 04-29-2011 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by storymilo (Post 1045316)
I learned PEMDAS, that is

Parentheses
Exponents
Multiplication
Division
Addition
Subtraction

But the only reason division is after multiplication (and subtraction is after addition) is that you can't have two letter in the same spot. They get the same priority.

But then wouldn't the answer be different than what it should be?

Kirby 04-29-2011 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oojay (Post 1045310)
6/2*(1+2) = 6/2*(3) = 6/6 = 1

Parentheses
Exponents (and Roots)
Multiplication
Division
Addition
Subtraction

This is like sixth grade math guys, seriously.

Mathematical Order Of Operations

Lol @ "this is like sixth grade math guys, seriously" and then you got it wrong.

Multiplication and Division are interchangeable.
Just like addition and subtraction.

storymilo 04-29-2011 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Down (Post 1045319)
But then wouldn't the answer be different than what it should be?

What do you mean? The answer should be nine... it is nine. I think Kirby had it right before but basically:

6/2*(1+2)

Everyone agrees that parentheses go first. So

6/2*3

Multiplication and division both have the same priority, and since that's all this problem contains, we just move from left to right.

6/2 = 3

3*3 = 9

[MERIT] 04-29-2011 01:44 PM

The standard order of operations, or precedence, is expressed here:

Terms inside Parenthesis
Exponents and Roots
Multiplication and Division
Addition and Subtraction

This means that if a mathematical expression is preceded by one operator and followed by another, the operator higher on the list should be applied first. The commutative and associative laws of addition and multiplication allow terms to be added in any order and factors to be multiplied in any order, but mixed operations must obey the standard order of operations.

Multiplication takes precedence over Division, as Division is the inverse of it, deeming Multiplication the "positive" operation.



THE ANSWER IS STILL 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirby (Post 1045320)
Lol @ "this is like sixth grade math guys, seriously" and then you got it wrong.

Multiplication and Division are interchangeable.
Just like addition and subtraction.

You can LOL all you want, but the answer is 1, not 9. Read a math book.

Burning Down 04-29-2011 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by storymilo (Post 1045321)
What do you mean? The answer should be nine... it is nine. I think Kirby had it right before but basically:

6/2*(1+2)

Everyone agrees that parentheses go first. So

6/2*3

Multiplication and division both have the same priority, and since that's all this problem contains, we just move from left to right.

6/2 = 3

3*3 = 9

I see it now, it's just not the way I learned it. Doesn't mean that it's wrong to use that system. I just asked because oojay answered using the exact same formula, but then got the answer wrong.

storymilo 04-29-2011 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oojay (Post 1045322)
The standard order of operations, or precedence, is expressed here:

Terms inside Parenthesis
Exponents and Roots
Multiplication and Division
Addition and Subtraction

This means that if a mathematical expression is preceded by one operator and followed by another, the operator higher on the list should be applied first. The commutative and associative laws of addition and multiplication allow terms to be added in any order and factors to be multiplied in any order, but mixed operations must obey the standard order of operations.

Multiplication takes precedence over Division, as Division is the inverse of it, deeming Multiplication the "positive" operation.

You were correct until the bolded part. Just as division is the inverse of multiplication, multiplication is the inverse of division. It works both ways. Neither should be dealt with before the other, unless they come first in the equation.

MoonlitSunshine 04-29-2011 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine (Post 1045317)
The answer is you need more parentheses.

Short answer: You're always taught BOMDAS (Brackets Order Mult Div Add Sub) over here, but...

Mathematically correct answer:

Multiplication does not precedence over Division. Division is defined as the inverse of multiplication rather than being a separate operator: if a is a number 1/a is it's inverse. That is, a*(1/a) = 1. Similarly, (x*a)/a = x, since a/a = a*(1/a) = 1.

The result of this is, you cannot define an operator or it's inverse taking "precedence". In fact, you cannot define any operator taking precedence over another, as that is the realm of ambiguous convention. You might as well just say 1+1 = 3 while you're at it. The only true mathematical description of precedence is through the use of parentheses, as that is their explicit function. The fact is that the order in which operators are evaluated is a dangerous form of shortcut which honestly shouldn't be taught.

To give an example. You are taught BOMDAS in schools here, that is to say, multiplication before division. So in this circumstance, 6/2*(1+2) = 6/6 = 1.

However, if you use any calculator, it will evaluate the operators in the order they come up. If there is an addition, or subraction, it will simplify everything before the sign and then simplify everything after it, but if the only operators outside parentheses are * and /... well, I'll show you.

This is directly from Google Calculator:

(1+2)*2/6 => ((1 + 2) * 2) / 6 = 1
6/2*(1+2) => (6 / 2) * (1 + 2) = 9

As you can see, it simply took the first operator, simplified it, and then did the second, regardless of what order they were in.

Conclusion: The statement is ambiguous. In order to have a "true" answer, another pair of parentheses needs to be added.

I'm just gonna quote this seeing as everyone apparently missed it last time :P You're all right, and wrong.

storymilo 04-29-2011 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Down (Post 1045323)
I see it now, it's just not the way I learned it. Doesn't mean that it's wrong to use that system. I just asked because oojay answered using the exact same formula, but then got the answer wrong.

Yeah... oojay's fatal flaw is his conviction that multiplication is always done before division.

storymilo 04-29-2011 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine (Post 1045325)
I'm just gonna quote this seeing as everyone apparently missed it last time :P You're all right, and wrong.

The answer is definitely nine. You can't just move parentheses about... they're in the equation for a reason.

Burning Down 04-29-2011 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oojay (Post 1045322)
The standard order of operations, or precedence, is expressed here:

Terms inside Parenthesis
Exponents and Roots
Multiplication and Division
Addition and Subtraction

This means that if a mathematical expression is preceded by one operator and followed by another, the operator higher on the list should be applied first. The commutative and associative laws of addition and multiplication allow terms to be added in any order and factors to be multiplied in any order, but mixed operations must obey the standard order of operations.

Multiplication takes precedence over Division, as Division is the inverse of it, deeming Multiplication the "positive" operation.



THE ANSWER IS STILL 1

Neither takes precedence over the other. It goes from left to right.

http://www.onlinemathlearning.com/im...es/pemdas1.gif
Order of Operations - PEMDAS (with worked solutions & videos)

Every math textbook you read will tell you this.


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