http://thenextweb.com/apple/files/20...black-xsan.jpg

VS.

http://www.the-parenting-magazine.co...11/petrock.jpg


I pick the rock, and it's not even close.

Wait... so you're happy paying more, for less? I don't understand why you couldn't just hide or delete the features you didn't need on your PC.

No I'm not "happy" about paying "more" for "less". It's not like that. The ability to own more software that I don't need is pointless. And the average program will have versions available for most all platforms. Well, reliable ones anyway. By that I mean ones that are well established and whatnot. The Mac and PC are the same thing, they just do it differently. PCs are not SO much better than Macs and Macs are not SO much better than PCs. Both are fine. As you can see with this review, and many others (unbiased), they really are damn close.

For me it's, once again, that the Mac's design and aesthetic go hand in hand with what I like and need. And do know that the design is not just visual, but also involves how they work. The principles of form follows function, constraint, and the aesthetic usability effect are all involved. Amongst others.

MacOS is a suped up Unix kernal too :D.
The only OS that doesn't do unix seems to be Windows.
Well, and OS/2, but that's something else.

Alright well I guess I'm just not understanding the appeal of this Mac "design and aesthetic". As far as I can tell, you can even make your PC look and function exactly like a Mac, aside from the physical design and logo, that is...

Did you know that you can also run Windows on a Mac? The ones at school have the hard drives partitioned so both OS's get 50% of it.

Well I have successfully been running MacOS on a PC.
It runs better on a mac, but it's a start.
As far as looks go, a PC can look exactly like a mac indeed. I wouldn't want it to (I hate that dock!) but it can be done.
Google 'stardock' :)
And it's not so hard building a PC into a mac cabinet.

Yeah sure, that's because Apple finally discovered that Intel processors are better than their G5's and such. So it's pretty much a 'normal' PC that can run Mac OS, now. But I wouldn't see the point of buying a (overpriced) Mac only to run windows on it.

You could, but I don't understand why you would want to. All the time and effort into making a PC like a Mac when you could just get a Mac. And I wonder why no one ever tries to make a Mac like a PC? That's sayin somthin right dur. I mean, you can get a PC for cheap, and Macs you can't. However, if you want to get a PC that's comparable to a Mac, the price won't be that far off. In the case of the review that I posted before, the comparable PC was $400 more than the Mac and still didn't have performance that was quite as good. It was very close though. But in my opinion the Mac won the looks contest by a mile. :p:

But as I said before, I really think it's mainly about preference. There's pros and cons to both. :wavey:

A comparable PC $400 more than a mac?
A 6GB memory expansion for a Mac Mini overhere costs more than a comparable PC.
And I'm not kidding at all. Really really not kidding at all.

Y'all wanna know what I just ordered from Newegg?

Hint: It's not a Mac, but it will knock the balls off your children's children.

A Mag?

Hmmm. No get joke.

Nah, it's a Windows based system.

I believe you, I believe you. But I have not a clue as to what that is. RAM? More actual memory? I don't do customization. Anything involving the inner workings of a computer is not my forte. If you're someone that is constantly customizing, then PCs could easily be for you. I think. I have not a clue. It's not relevant to me, so I never really look into that kind of thing. For me, the computer will stay the way it is until it needs to actually get fixed.

Hey, you're the army type here.
I thought a Mag was some kind of gun or something.
Google says too.

Eitherway, HTPC? Or some Tablet? :)

Haha, in that case you probably shouldn't believe what you're told.
Because there's no way a comparable (!) mac goes for less money than a comparable PC. It's just not true.
Don't believe reviews unless you know what you're talking about. Yes you get my point: They're useless and biased most of the time...

I don't know what I'm talking about with this.. customized inner workings stuff, which is why I leave it in the hands of the people who do. This is what I found the other day, but ended up just choosing the article from Popular Mechanics.

But yes, bias is a HUGE issue. At Wal-Mart this one time I was talking about Nikon and Canon, and some guy I don't know talked my ear off about how Canon is better. But some swear Nikon is better. In reality, they're both great. It's just about what you need and prefer and whatnot. I still don't know what I'm gonna get. But I still need money first.

Only thing I ever shot in the military was 5.56 cal rounds through an M-16, and an attached m203 grenade launcher. Also a M249 SAW, but that's the same caliber rounds as the M-16, so it's equally crap.

Currently, the only gun I actually own is a 9 mil pistol, simply for home protection.


Anyway, I'll write up my list in the "last bought" thread.

@ CanwllCorfe

I wouldn't mind reading the article and trying to explain you why it's not true.
But I can tell you this;
When you go to apple.nl and you choose a Mac Mini, it comes with 2GB of memory, stock. You can expand this memory to 8GB for 300 euro's (which is about 425 dollars). Got that/ Good.
Now when I go to a computer shop and I buy the same (exactly the same! Will work in your mac just fine) 6GB of memory without an apple logo on it, it will set me back 70 euro's (about 100 dollars). Apple uses the same memory and makes you pay THREE TIMES as much.
Right, got that?

Now, the Mac Mini itself.
It's a 2.66ghz Intel Core2Duo processor with a 320GB Harddisk and 2GB's of memory, standard. Which is a bit sad to begin with as this hardware is about 4 years old. They still sell it as new, but it's really old crap. Sets you back 835 euro's.
Right, here we go.
Intel Core2Duo Processor, 320GB harddisk, 2GB of memory. 2.96 (cannot find the 2.66 anymore, it's just too old) ghz Core2duo processor, power supply, casing, Asus mainboard, DVD drive.
Right. So I had to make a PC that's a bit faster than the mac, as the processor of the Mac is just too old, right?

The price? 300 euro's.
So that's 835 euro's versus 300 euro's.
Or 1150 dollars versus 426 dollars for about the same stuff.
If I want 8GB of memory in my PC, it will become about 60 euro's more expensive.
If I want 8GB of memory in my mac, it will become 300 euro's more expensive...
If I want a 1TB hard drive drive in my Mac... Oh wait, I can't.
Well, 500GB then, it will be 50 euro's more expensive, 500gb drive in my PC, it will become 3 (yes, three) euro's more expensive...

You don't have to understand a thing of what I'm saying.
But please understand it when I say 'what the hell are they thinking at apple?'.

And it's not like their hardware is any better. Seagate harddisks, just like in PC's, nvidia videochips, just like in pc's, foxconn connectors, just like in PC's.
You really pay for a lot of... Nothing.

And I don't mind if anyone prefers a mac, but I just cannot see why it has to be so expensive. If a Mac Mini costs what it is worth, let's say between 300 and 400 dollars, I'd buy one. Just because it's the coolest looking thing ever.

For the money a Mac Mini costs I can build a PC out of a-spec parts that has the same specs as a 2000 euro PowerPC.

I have the feeling there's two things that keep apple alive
1. The idea that a mac works better with some audio/video/photo editing software
2. All those scared people that are afraid of trying stuff themselves and don't mind paying two or three times as much so they don't have to think about how their PC works. And that's fine. I just hope no one expects this poor ****er to understand :D.

Yeah that's all a bit much. I really am interested in finding out why. You don't have to read the whole article, just the bottom. That's the the part about performance.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech.../tests/4258725

For example: the startup. It says 28 seconds for the Mac and 1 min. 13 seconds for the PC. Why the hell is that?!

The answer is easy; They didn't compare it to a PC. They compared it to an all in one design PC. Same problem; They put a lot of money in the design. You can buy (or build, as I do) a way way way faster PC than that for the same money.

And another thing; The PC runs Windows Vista. And there has never been an OS that is worse than Windows Vista. Well, maybe Mac OS 10.1. But that's really it. Still, they compared two modern OS's there so that's only fair. But Windows Vista really holds the computer back.

Nevertheless; They compared an Apple to a Gimmick. That computer is not a serious PC to me :)

See, that's what I mean. If you're building custom PCs then that's a whole different thing. I'm just talking about going to a store and getting a normal PC or Mac on the basest of levels, cause that is what is relevant to me. Customization and cheap parts are relevant for you. We're on 2 different pages.. or in 2 different books. Either one works. Oh and games is a big thing too. But I don't play games. Macs fit me like a glove. A very nice glove. A very simple one too!

Sounds like the Mac doesn't need to pull as many files, or as large files, from the hard drive. I wouldn't use startup time as any sort of gauge though. I can compare XP on my system, vs Windows 7 (and I use XP primarily, for the time being) and Windows 7 starts faster than XP does. But 7 uses more RAM than XP does. I'm using the same 7200 RPM drive for both. Startup time, and program startup time is relevant to the hard drive itself, but each OS utilizes it differently. The only difference between Mac and Windows, regarding that, is the OS. If you value your operating system being able to start faster than a Windows OS, then that's on you. Personally, all I care about is that I'm able to do whatever I want to do, and fast, when I'm on my computer.
Not saying Mac doesn't offer that capability, but I've used both, and I gotta say, I'd rather pay less for better performance and customization, as a tech head, with Windows, and an actual computer that allows for performance. The operating system is NOT where performance comes from. They just utilize performance differently.

Ahhh okay. That makes sense. Windows XP! That brings back some bad memories. We somehow managed to get a popup that embedded itself into the computer. Even after a restore we still had it. It was like a program window or something, it wasn't related to the internet. Twas a shitty situation.

You must have had some fleeting XP memories then.

That's called a virus, bruh.
Yea, I know Mac is less prone to them, but seriously, there are AMAZING virus shields out there for, guess how many dollars... 0.
And they update themselves, just in case the user is dumb enough to think that just because their name is Joe, that they won't get a virus.

Well, same story. You could buy a PC that's a lot faster for that money.
You can buy a decent PC that kicks the living crap out of a Mac Mini for about 500 dollars here. Brand new, screen included.
Building/customising a PC isn't cheaper than buying a ready made PC. Only I want to decide what's in my computer, so that has more to do with me than with the PC. But often these readymate PC's are just as cheap :)

Macs are perfect for people who just don't care about their computer.
Macs are the Fords and Toyota's of computerworld (people who drive a ford or a toyota here usually don't care about cars, they just want them to drive).

Eitherway, Freebase, are you familiar with the word "PEBCAK"?

I wasn't saying making a statement on Windows vs. Macs. I was just saying I had something fuck up my computer and that it was a shitty situation.

http://www.vanenter.nl/blog/wp-conte...panic.jpg.jpeg
:D

I think that's a pretty broad statement. Anyone who owns a mac doesn't care about their computer?

No. That's not what I'm saying.
Anyone who doesn't care about computers and doesn't want to think about them, should buy a mac.

Why would people who don't care or don't think about computers spend more for one that, as you say, does less? The average person owns a PC. Not a Mac.

Well it doesn't do anything more if you ask me.
Why did you spend more on a mac?

Edit: To answer your question; Probably so they won't have to think because their Apple thinks for them, whether they want it or not.
Some people don't have problems with that. I do though.

I won't be visiting the Apple site anymore for this topic by the way. It really makes me angry. The prices they dare to ask, the statements they make when you enter a store, so you keep buying their crap with their computers, even though it's all the same with an apple logo on it. I really see that company as a an awful thing... It really does make me very angry.

I don't own one at all. I just prefer them, which is what the poll says. I use them at school quite a bit and have used the laptops in class when trying to teach people how to use Photoshop. When I DO get one, I will get a Mac. And it's quite simple: I simply prefer them. I went on length about it a couple pages back with RVCA. I don't wanna go much further into it. This is the first time I've actually went back and forth with someone on here. Like a "debate" or something. I promised myself I would never get involved in one because I feel they're a waste of time. After all this talking, what has changed? Not a damn thing. God I am a fool.

EDIT: If you wanna say something else just PM me. This wasted lots of pages.

That doesn't matter man, I already knew that from the beginning.
Hear hear, my first posting in this topic:
Don't take it too seriously :).

Oh I don't. I just hate debating. It reminds me of angry people on the news. Two people. Back and forth. Oil and water. It just doesn't make sense.

You must have realized by now that debates are purely for personal gratification.

I think this thread is actually one of the tamest "Mac/PC" debates I've ever seen. People usually seem to get surprisingly emotional about this particular topic for some weird reason. It's always seemed pretty silly to me since it's basically the equivalent of one person getting worked up because someone else prefers a different brand of toaster from them.

Oh they are. And I never get gratification from them. Just spewing words about why I like what I like. Then someone says what they like and why. And then sometimes it can get heated. But then sometimes people will change their mind. The only thing I know is that they're not for me. Can't say I'm a fan of words. Imagery, music, fragrance > words.

Oh I know. It's unbelievable.

I don't think you should be painting Mac users or people who just like the system with the same brush. Just because I own and use a Mac doesn't mean I don't care about computers. Sure I'm no technology expert but I'm pretty savvy when it comes to a lot of things. I don't think about my computers at all in a material sense - it's just another thing that I own. But when using them, I want the computer to think with me and not for me, if you know what I mean. Keep in mind that I use both Mac OS X Snow Leopard and Windows 7.

He wasn't trying to insult anyone, but there's a good reason why, for example, practically no one at computerforum.com uses a Mac.