Do You Believe in People With "Supernatural" Powers?

Guybrush · 03-24-2011, 05:17 AM

When I was a teenager, I used to read fortunes with a deck of tarot cards (still have it). With tarot cards, you don't necessarily just tell a future, you also tell a person their influences from the past and the present, fears and so on. When I did this to people, I was usually right on the money, often to the point where they were scared because it was so accurate. However, when I tried reading my own fortune several times in a row, I also felt that the cards were right over and over agian, more often than not. But, there was the occasional blooper.

A strong component in why they worked so well is that the interpretation of the cards are actually quite vague and people are almost eager to believe in them. For example, I might get a card like the devil and tell someone that something has come between them and another person, something which is splitting them apart. They will then take that information and mentally search for something in their lives which they can attach it to. For example, if they have a boyfriend which is going away, they'll apply it to that. If they've had a row with one of their parents, they'll apply it to that. If someone died, they'll apply it to that. For every card, it's almost always possible to find something and so people end up basically doing much of their card reading for you. You just help them down a mental path they construct themselves and then finally give them a fortune reading based on the cards, but rooted in what they've told you.

I think if people were more aware of stuff like this, how we are prone to thinking and interpreting stuff and how vulnerable we are to suggestion, more people would be sceptics.

djchameleon · 03-24-2011, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

When I was a teenager, I used to read fortunes with a deck of tarot cards (still have it). With tarot cards, you don't necessarily just tell a future, you also tell a person their influences from the past and the present, fears and so on. When I did this to people, I was usually right on the money, often to the point where they were scared because it was so accurate. However, when I tried reading my own fortune several times in a row, I also felt that the cards were right over and over agian, more often than not. But, there was the occasional blooper.

A strong component in why they worked so well is that the interpretation of the cards are actually quite vague and people are almost eager to believe in them. For example, I might get a card like the devil and tell someone that something has come between them and another person, something which is splitting them apart. They will then take that information and mentally search for something in their lives which they can attach it to. For example, if they have a boyfriend which is going away, they'll apply it to that. If they've had a row with one of their parents, they'll apply it to that. If someone died, they'll apply it to that. For every card, it's almost always possible to find something and so people end up basically doing much of their card reading for you. You just help them down a mental path they construct themselves and then finally give them a fortune reading based on the cards, but rooted in what they've told you.

I think if people were more aware of stuff like this, how we are prone to thinking and interpreting stuff and how vulnerable we are to suggestion, more people would be sceptics.

You are right, that's how those TV psychics that use Cold Readings get people to believe their crap. They use the power of suggestion and use very vague terminology.

They also read the person's body language and facial indicators to help them with their cold readings.

Freebase Dali · 03-24-2011, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

One thing is that people are keen on interpreting and finding patterns in the world around them. Let's say that before you toss a dice, you think "it's going to be a 6" and when you roll, it turns out you were right. That doesn't mean it wasn't a coincidence, but for a lot of people, the idea that the connection between the guess and result is because of some sixth sense is highly appealing.

Sorry Vanilla, but I thought I'd use your dream about your grandpa as another example and hope you are not offended (I have no grandparents left and remember the sadness of losing them). You dreamt your grandfather would die and a little later, it happened. Maybe you've dreamt several times that your grandpa and/or people in your family are ill and die. One day it really happens and you interpret your dream as an ability to see into the future. It's not such a strange thing to dream about and death happens to us all, especially the elderly. I've heard, but I'll try and find a source if you like, that catastrophy dreams about death and accidents are very common. So, when an accident happens, depending on the nature of the situation, there could be a fair chance you've dreamed about it.

For me, I remember dreaming f.ex that I've been in a car accident. Because I wasn't in a car accident within a "short" time space after that dream, I haven't interpreted it as a premonition .. but if I had been in a car accident short after, maybe I would. The point is that if you would dream of such things regardless of what the future looks like, then these dreams are not really premonitions. They just look like it when they coincidentally pair up with real life circumstance.

I also believe people also tend to mentally "shave off" the parts of their premonitions that don't fit reality. Let's say you dreamed that your grandpa was lost at sea, but then he died of cancer. You could still interpret your dream as a premonition by stripping it down to what matters - a death - although the circumstances around his death in the dream versus real life were completely different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

When I was a teenager, I used to read fortunes with a deck of tarot cards (still have it). With tarot cards, you don't necessarily just tell a future, you also tell a person their influences from the past and the present, fears and so on. When I did this to people, I was usually right on the money, often to the point where they were scared because it was so accurate. However, when I tried reading my own fortune several times in a row, I also felt that the cards were right over and over agian, more often than not. But, there was the occasional blooper.

A strong component in why they worked so well is that the interpretation of the cards are actually quite vague and people are almost eager to believe in them. For example, I might get a card like the devil and tell someone that something has come between them and another person, something which is splitting them apart. They will then take that information and mentally search for something in their lives which they can attach it to. For example, if they have a boyfriend which is going away, they'll apply it to that. If they've had a row with one of their parents, they'll apply it to that. If someone died, they'll apply it to that. For every card, it's almost always possible to find something and so people end up basically doing much of their card reading for you. You just help them down a mental path they construct themselves and then finally give them a fortune reading based on the cards, but rooted in what they've told you.

I think if people were more aware of stuff like this, how we are prone to thinking and interpreting stuff and how vulnerable we are to suggestion, more people would be sceptics.

Hell yes. All of this.

I make it a priority to find scientific sources and discover as many things about the way our mind works and how our mental processes affect the way we see things, and the more I learn, the more I realize that the main component behind people's belief in the particular stuff we're talking about here, is ignorance about what's really going on in their own bodies and minds, and why they're interpreting things in the way they are.
Unfortunately, you can show some people an incredibly valid and perfectly reasonable alternative to a belief, that's backed up by science, and it still won't matter to them.

duga · 03-24-2011, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

Hell yes. All of this.

I make it a priority to find scientific sources and discover as many things about the way our mind works and how our mental processes affect the way we see things, and the more I learn, the more I realize that the main component behind people's belief in the particular stuff we're talking about here, is ignorance about what's really going on in their own bodies and minds, and why they're interpreting things in the way they are.
Unfortunately, you can show some people an incredibly valid and perfectly reasonable alternative to a belief, that's backed up by science, and it still won't matter to them.

I completely agree. I also respect that you make an effort to look a bit deeper into these issues. I will say that I feel 90% of these "experiences" are a person's mind rationalizing what has happened. An unexpected death can really traumatize someone, so feeling as if you already "knew" it would happen lessens the blow.

However, I also feel there are a great number of people who underestimate the power of the mind. Throwing the word "supernatural" out there automatically gets people skeptical. Not to mention the words themselves (psychics, premontions, healing with your mind) have a very fantastical connotation. The sad thing is people who don't believe are armed with a myriad of scientific research to show how this isn't true, yet the people who believe don't even bother. They are satisfied with "well, I believe it. so?" This research is accurate in that we don't have psychic abilities RIGHT NOW. I believe our minds have to power to evolve this ability, though. I even believe we see small indications that some people have a slight "psychic" ability.

I don't see why it's so hard to accept...there are examples in nature where certain organisms can communicate to each with nothing but electric impulses. It's not called telepathy, so people don't argue with it. 80 years ago the idea of cordless anything was unthinkable...yet now we all walk around with cell phones. I think brainwaves can travel on a similar principle. In fact, I think telepathy would be the next major step in our evolution. We struggle so hard to communicate and understand each other at all times, I feel it is the next logical step.

I think people experience a form of telepathy everyday, we just pass it off as "gut feelings" and instincts. Have you ever been able to tell that someone is nothing but bad news just by the feeling you get? Or maybe you trust someone unconditionally after meeting them for only 5 minutes. There are small things, but I feel they are definitely there.

I'm not saying I believe this is the case 100%. I'm just playing the devil's advocate. I like to exist in a gray area with most issues like this.

Guybrush · 03-24-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

I think people experience a form of telepathy everyday, we just pass it off as "gut feelings" and instincts. Have you ever been able to tell that someone is nothing but bad news just by the feeling you get? Or maybe you trust someone unconditionally after meeting them for only 5 minutes. There are small things, but I feel they are definitely there.

I don't think there's anything telepathic about stuff like this. When you meet someone, the unconscious part of your brain is processing all kinds of information about this person, interpreting the way they look, the way their facial expression changes, the way they stand or hold their arms, what they say and how they say it and so on .. A lot of stuff which you get by "normal" sensory input.

I think what you call a gut feeling is simply based on stuff like that. To judge how someone's going to react to you, whether or not they can be trusted, and so on would be highly important to our fitness as social animals and highly adaptive. So, we should be good at it and there are telltale signs that give you that information without the need of a sixth sense.

edit :

Also, there's psychology involved here like association. Your fond memories of your grandmother and other experiences with elderly may make you more friendly inclined to old ladies for example.

djchameleon · 03-25-2011, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I don't think there's anything telepathic about stuff like this. When you meet someone, the unconscious part of your brain is processing all kinds of information about this person, interpreting the way they look, the way their facial expression changes, the way they stand or hold their arms, what they say and how they say it and so on .. A lot of stuff which you get by "normal" sensory input.

I think what you call a gut feeling is simply based on stuff like that. To judge how someone's going to react to you, whether or not they can be trusted, and so on would be highly important to our fitness as social animals and highly adaptive. So, we should be good at it and there are telltale signs that give you that information without the need of a sixth sense.

edit :

Also, there's psychology involved here like association. Your fond memories of your grandmother and other experiences with elderly may make you more friendly inclined to old ladies for example.

Just to add a little more to this, I also think while the brain is accessing for information about those minor details it is also attempting to match those things to traits of a person that you disliked in your past that also shared the same traits and that's where the whole gut feeling comes from.

I have come to notice that I come across the same type of people but they are just in different "shells". The way that they end up conducting themselves are very similar to people that I have met in my past.

holly984 · 03-25-2011, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

Unfortunately, you can show some people an incredibly valid and perfectly reasonable alternative to a belief, that's backed up by science, and it still won't matter to them.

I definitely agree. No matter the issue, people in general tend to actively seek out and accept only those views (and evidence) that correlates with and confirms what they already believe; avoiding or discounting information that contradicts their viewpoint.

Freebase Dali · 03-25-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holly984

I definitely agree. No matter the issue, people in general tend to actively seek out and accept only those views (and evidence) that correlates with and confirms what they already believe; avoiding or discounting information that contradicts their viewpoint.

Definitely.
I believe that's the general definition for being closed-minded.

Howard the Duck · 03-26-2011, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

Definitely.
I believe that's the general definition for being closed-minded.

it may be the 3rd World here but I still live in the old world

View Poll Results: Do You Believe in People With "Supernatural" Powers? Healers, Mediums, Psychics, etc.
Yes	9	32.14%
Undecided / Unsure / Don't know	5	17.86%
No	14	50.00%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

03-24-2011, 05:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	When I was a teenager, I used to read fortunes with a deck of tarot cards (still have it). With tarot cards, you don't necessarily just tell a future, you also tell a person their influences from the past and the present, fears and so on. When I did this to people, I was usually right on the money, often to the point where they were scared because it was so accurate. However, when I tried reading my own fortune several times in a row, I also felt that the cards were right over and over agian, more often than not. But, there was the occasional blooper. A strong component in why they worked so well is that the interpretation of the cards are actually quite vague and people are almost eager to believe in them. For example, I might get a card like the devil and tell someone that something has come between them and another person, something which is splitting them apart. They will then take that information and mentally search for something in their lives which they can attach it to. For example, if they have a boyfriend which is going away, they'll apply it to that. If they've had a row with one of their parents, they'll apply it to that. If someone died, they'll apply it to that. For every card, it's almost always possible to find something and so people end up basically doing much of their card reading for you. You just help them down a mental path they construct themselves and then finally give them a fortune reading based on the cards, but rooted in what they've told you. I think if people were more aware of stuff like this, how we are prone to thinking and interpreting stuff and how vulnerable we are to suggestion, more people would be sceptics. __________________ Something Completely Different