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Originally Posted by boo boo
How old a poll is that?
Vanilla and Paloma are the funniest broads for me. And Vegangelica also because of how she is now gonna start a ridiculous argument over my use of the word broad.
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(Ooo! My chance to pick up humor points!)
BROAD?! BROAD! You betcha women's heads are broad, boo boo! That's because we've got such big and capable brains in them.
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Originally Posted by boo boo
In one way I agree with Vegan and find you annoyingly dismissive of women a lot of times.
But I agree that her attitude comes off as being patronizing to other female members which I have an issue with. I think she tends to make the female members more uncomfortable than any of the guys due to her preachiness about what women "need" to do.
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I guess I see it differently, Boo boo. I don't feel I tell women what they need to do. For example, I've never said women have to stop shaving...whereas most of society (and most MB male members who have commented) say they feel women
should shave. But I do talk about what I feel is obvious: women do not always start shaving for the pure joy of it, but do so to avoid negative responses (peer pressure).
One way to *stop* negative peer pressure is to acknowledge it exists and point out how it functions--the more people who do something (such as shave their legs), the greater the peer pressure. I view myself as simply pointing out the negative peer pressure that surrounds the shaving norm. I wish women's leg hair were not an issue at all, so that women could do what they wish without people telling them they are ugly if they don't choose the socially accepted choice.
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I wouldn't call it sexism so much as just being overly passionate about her views which causes her to be self righteous and preachy, and having way too much of an "either/or" way of looking at things when regarding her gender. Whenever someone feels like their way is "how it should be" and projects that idea onto others making them feel like they're being treated like moral inferiors or misguided people, then I think that's a problem.
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Well, it is definitely true that I want women to have good body images and healthy self-esteem. I want girls to grow up feeling there is nothing wrong with body hair on women...or men. And it is true that I feel women are sometimes treated as inferiors, such as professionally, and I want that to stop.
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I still like Vegangelica to an extent, she's not mean or abrasive about her beliefs, not intentionally anyway, I've definitely come across morally imperialistic vegan/feminists who I want to be burned alive. She's not that bad. We agree on some things and she's openminded about things that very few people are openminded about. I just wish she'd get off her high horse when regarding certain things.
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Thank you, boo boo. I like you, too. You aren't afraid to share your beliefs, and I genuinely feel you don't want to hurt people. I like it that you keep up a dialogue with me in our debates, rather than shutting down. We don't agree on all things, that's true, but that's okay.
I think that my perspective on the "girl/women" name issue is affected in part by my age. I'm closer to the generation (before mine) that dealt with severe sexism, whereas now it is more subtle. Up until the 1970s, women in sciences such as my predecessors were expected to retire when they got married! And my mom lost her job due to being female and asking a valid question of the (male) departmental head in a public departmental meeting, which irked him. That was in the late 1970s, and that was how her career ended: with disappointment and discrimination.
My views on the leg shaving norm are also affected by my personal experiences. I experienced the shame of growing darker leg hair during puberty, when I resorted to preventing my peers from seeing my leg hair such as by wearing knee-high socks in a hot tub, claiming I wore them to avoid contracting foot fungus. I was reduced to lying to hide my body hair! My own experience of knowing that I'd be teased for a natural part of my body has shaped my view of the harm of the shaving norm, as do the studies that show girls
still start shaving because they feel their hair is ugly and they are afraid of all the putdowns they'd face if they didn't shave.
Regardless how many women feel happy following the shaving norm, I will always stand up for those girls or women who do not, boo boo. I don't think the shavers need protection so much as the girls and women who are defying a constrictive social norm and facing comments such as "Use some f*cking Nair!"
As for URBAN HATEMONGER...I don't think he means harm to women. I like him. I never said I felt he was annoyingly dismissive of women. People just have fun in different ways. I have fun by debating things. I think Urban sometimes likes to appear sexist for fun. I think it is just an act.
Mostly.
And I do listen to his views of my behaviors to see whether I think they mesh with how I see them. I don't view myself as sexist when I point out problems with people calling women "girls" or problems with people telling women that their body hair is ugly. Quite the opposite: I see myself as supporting women and their choices. I don't think Urban was actually able to make his "sexism charge" against me stick, anyway...although he
was right that I have definite views I'd like other people to share, such as at those times when I am right and everyone else is wrong.
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