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I have a bad feeling that Sidewinder is gonna call you a sexist and you wont take that accusation lightly and you will go apesh*t and ban a third of the forum.
I have a bad feeling that Sidewinder is gonna call you a sexist and you wont take that accusation lightly and you will go apesh*t and ban a third of the forum.
Yes, I agree to an extent, not-a-girl-not-yet-a-woman!
Given that “girl” means someone who isn’t fully mature and confident, my question is this: why would a woman (age 18 or over) feel immature and unconfident about herself, and why would she feel she needs to express this by labeling herself as "girl," when she is physically a woman?
I feel culture sometimes encourages women to see themselves as girls and not as mature, capable women...and if women are encouraged to think this way, that probably means men are, too. Also, I feel we can acknowledge that we all sometimes feel immature and unconfident, regardless of age, without needing to label ourselves “girls” because of that.
My second issue with "girl,” Vanilla, revolves around what it means when OTHER people call women "girls." Like you said, "girl" has the connotation of "immature, unconfident." So, when I hear some man refer to an adult woman as a girl I will probably see the use of "girl" as subtly derogatory...or perhaps it emphasizes that he thinks of her as delicate and vulnerable, all the things “femininity” is supposed to include.
To me, calling a woman “girl” feels somewhat dismissive. If I heard some 40-year-old man refer to Hillary Clinton as a “girl,” I would assume he is right-wing and feels women shouldn't be "uppity," so he's taking out his anger at capable women by calling them girls.
Here’s a good explanation, I feel, of why calling women “girls” is dismissive of them. It mentions Jay Leno, too...so that relates to humor!
LOL sometimes I get the feeling that you do alot more typing than you do thinking.
Location: Where people kill 30 million pigs per year
Posts: 2,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by boo boo
I seriously doubt most girls (ooops, women, excuse me) really give a sh*t that people call them girls. We have all kinds of slang terms for men. Guys, dudes, bros. Why are these ok but coming up with alternative names for females is sexist?
Most guys just say it, they dont have a sexist intent in doing so and vice versa most women pay it no attention so why make an issue out of something so trivial and only important to feminists who are running out of stuff to complain about?
To me girl is a flattering word. You say it implies immaturity I say it implies youth. When people stop calling you girl and start calling you lady that means you're getting old. I see women refering to guys as boys ALL the time, and they call other women girls ALL the time.
This is such a non issue.
How women feel about calling themselves or being called "girl" certainly depends on the woman in question, boo boo, and I agree that calling women "girls" is so common that many people don't think much about it.
However, the history of people calling women "girls" as a derogatory, patronising, dismissive term is one that feminists (women and men) in the 70's fought against for good reason to try to raise awareness of the underlying sexism toward women, and that underlying sexism still exists, so it is good to look at contributing factors and symptoms of it (such as terminology used to refer to people).
An example of sexism in our culture: women are still underrepresented in a variety of professions and are often paid less than men in equivalent jobs. U.S. Department of Education data show that "a year out of school, despite having earned higher college GPAs in every subject, young women will take home, on average across all professions, just 80 percent of what their male colleagues do. A decade out of college, full-time working women who haven't had children still make 77 cents on the male dollar." Young Women, Newsweek, and Sexism - Newsweek. So, the question is "Why?"
This is not a trivial issue, I feel: being treated as less than a capable and valued adult is the history of women in the workforce (as well as in relationships), and calling women "girls" was a way to limit their progress and still may contribute to some women's and men's lower expectations of women and their capabilities. I recommend the above timely Newsweek article about the limitations women experience in their lives due to their gender.
Words themselves are not so important, but the intent and meaning behind them are. You may feel calling a woman "girl" is nice because you feel it means she is "young," but not all women will feel flattered by this, not only because being categorized based on age may feel demeaning, but also because, in contrast with your experience, I have observed that people often don't call men "boys" but do call women "girls" in professional situations.
Perhaps if more women were paid equally to men, the sign of the worth of their work, and if women worldwide weren't often treated as girls lacking equal rights and social privileges of men, hearing people refer to women as "girls" wouldn't rankle so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freebase Dali
A feminist can find something wrong with ANYTHING a guy calls a female. Even "female". There's no politically correct way to appease someone who already has it in their head that males mistreat females by default.
Their entire campaign depends on that fact.
I don't think males mistreat females by default, but some do and pointing that out is a good thing. The article above gives some women's views on the imperfect progress of the "campaign" to ensure women and men will have equal opportunities in life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna
LOL sometimes I get the feeling that you do alot more typing than you do thinking.
What did you feel was incorrect about my reply to Vanilla's question, such that you felt I managed to type it without thinking, Tuna?
Since this is a thread about women, men, humor, and comedy, here are some stand-up comedians (one a man, one a woman) who I feel are quite funny as they talk about calling people "women" vs. "girls" and other terms:
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neapolitan:
If a chicken was smart enough to be able to speak English and run in a geometric pattern, then I think it should be smart enough to dial 911 (999) before getting the axe, and scream to the operator, "Something must be done! Something must be done!"
Last edited by VEGANGELICA; 07-25-2010 at 05:41 AM.
Location: Where people kill 30 million pigs per year
Posts: 2,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger
I think Vegangelica has without a doubt proved that the answer to the original question asked in the first post in the thread is a resounding NO.
That's because I'm not doing my stand-up comedian act. I'm sitting down. It makes a big difference, you see.
When I'm sitting down during my routine, I am reminded of all the chauvinists forcing women down down down to the level where they want them to be. Down low. LOW down. So responding to that only comes naturally at that point!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neapolitan:
If a chicken was smart enough to be able to speak English and run in a geometric pattern, then I think it should be smart enough to dial 911 (999) before getting the axe, and scream to the operator, "Something must be done! Something must be done!"
Location: Where people kill 30 million pigs per year
Posts: 2,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger
Still no
Well, UN**** YOU, man!!!! What the hell? Ain't innuendos enough? DO YOU HAVE TO SQUASH ALL COMEDIC DREAMS OUT OF WOMEN AS WELL AS PAY THEM SHIT SALARIES!!!!!!!!!
(Now?)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neapolitan:
If a chicken was smart enough to be able to speak English and run in a geometric pattern, then I think it should be smart enough to dial 911 (999) before getting the axe, and scream to the operator, "Something must be done! Something must be done!"
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