BR Challenge Round 1 : Can You Identify the Lowest to Highest Bitrates?

Guybrush · 11-10-2009, 08:52 AM

I realize there are a couple of hidden variables I haven't accounted for that I could include.

PS! All particpants!

Could you post roughly what kind of equipment you used when you did the comparison? Did you use good earphones or PC speakers? Or an expensive hi-fi system?

Also, I thought age or hearing ability might be a hidden factor. Hearing ability is predicted to decrease with age, so perhaps I can just ask you to rate your own hearing. How is your hearing? Bad, Good or Medium?

NumberNineDream · 11-10-2009, 08:42 PM

+ I did some kind of test last year to see which is the highest frequency that I can hear ... and I was hearing up to 22 000 Hz, so there's no weakness in that part.

+ As for the equipment used, it was my laptop's Built-in speakers, a 13'' Mac BookPro:

Device ID: 0x10DECB79
Audio ID: 77

OceanAndSilence · 11-11-2009, 12:38 AM

i am using onboard eq hopefully not to my detriment

i'm 20

i'm using headphones; sony mdr-xd100's

Guybrush · 11-11-2009, 02:24 AM

Super! Thanks for the info

music_phantom13 · 11-11-2009, 08:13 AM

Oops, I thought I posted here. Had my hearing tested recently, it was quite good.

As for the equipment, I listened on my Sennheiser eH350 headphones. They're pretty high quality headphones.

Guybrush · 11-11-2009, 08:15 AM

Good earphones should be a definite plus when doing this kind of stuff. Thanks for the info Mr. Phantom!

Guybrush · 11-26-2009, 01:15 AM

I see people stopped taking my test! I don't really have enough data to base anything on so I'm reluctant to post the right sequence just yet ..

What I can say is so far based on my own data so far is it indicates people in general don't seem to be good at this - as I predicted and other studies have shown. Still, I'd like more data ..

Come on people, take the test!

Schizotypic · 11-27-2009, 11:10 AM

Dude, you would be hated on What.cd from the looks of this test... apparently they all swear by FLAC files and VBR.

Guybrush · 02-21-2010, 11:04 AM

Alright, it seems people are not interested in doing this challenge, so I'm gonna take it down. I don't think I have enough results to bother with any kind of sophisticated statistics, but I'll post them here in case someone's curious.

The test was listening to a four different versions of a 30 seconds mp3 encoded in different bitrates. You were asked to arrange sample 1, 2, 3 and 4 in the order lowest bitrate to highest.

The correct sequence was : 2, 1, 4, 3

The bitrates (kbps) were : 128, 160, 256, 320. Those who took the test were assigned numbers. You can see how they did here :

2, 3, 1, 4 = 1 Rights
1, 3, 2, 4 = 0 Rights
4, 1, 2, 3 = 2 Rights
4, 3, 1, 2 = 0 Rights
2, 3, 1, 4 = 1 Rights
2, 4, 3, 1 = 1 Rights
1, 2, 4, 3 = 2 Rights
2, 1, 3, 4 = 2 Rights

(Note that there are many possible ways of counting rights in this dataset. This just counts how many of the samples are in the right place in the sequence.)

The average guessed sequence (counting which BR is found most often in each place) would be : 128, 320, 160, 256

Although there's not much data to base evidence on, from what I can see, people don't seem very good at separating bitrates higher than 160 and not really reliably down to 128 either.

It's the result I would expect to find even with more data, so I'm not surprised. Maybe it'll make some people reconsider the worth of very high BR/lossless files even if there's nowhere as much data as I'd like.

11-10-2009, 08:52 AM	#11 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	I realize there are a couple of hidden variables I haven't accounted for that I could include. PS! All particpants! Could you post roughly what kind of equipment you used when you did the comparison? Did you use good earphones or PC speakers? Or an expensive hi-fi system? Also, I thought age or hearing ability might be a hidden factor. Hearing ability is predicted to decrease with age, so perhaps I can just ask you to rate your own hearing. How is your hearing? Bad, Good or Medium? __________________ Something Completely Different

11-10-2009, 08:42 PM	#12 (permalink)
NumberNineDream Blue Bleezin' Blind Drunk Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The land of the largest wine glass (aka Lebanon) Posts: 2,200	+ I did some kind of test last year to see which is the highest frequency that I can hear ... and I was hearing up to 22 000 Hz, so there's no weakness in that part. + As for the equipment used, it was my laptop's Built-in speakers, a 13'' Mac BookPro: Device ID: 0x10DECB79 Audio ID: 77 __________________ Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats?Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats?Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats?Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Welcome to the Black Lodge

11-11-2009, 02:24 AM	#14 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	Super! Thanks for the info __________________ Something Completely Different

11-11-2009, 08:15 AM	#16 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	Good earphones should be a definite plus when doing this kind of stuff. Thanks for the info Mr. Phantom! __________________ Something Completely Different

11-26-2009, 01:15 AM	#17 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	I see people stopped taking my test! I don't really have enough data to base anything on so I'm reluctant to post the right sequence just yet .. What I can say is so far based on my own data so far is it indicates people in general don't seem to be good at this - as I predicted and other studies have shown. Still, I'd like more data .. Come on people, take the test! __________________ Something Completely Different

11-11-2009, 12:38 AM	#13 (permalink)
OceanAndSilence i write and play stuff Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 239	i am using onboard eq hopefully not to my detriment i'm 20 i'm using headphones; sony mdr-xd100's

11-11-2009, 08:13 AM	#15 (permalink)
music_phantom13 Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 942	Oops, I thought I posted here. Had my hearing tested recently, it was quite good. As for the equipment, I listened on my Sennheiser eH350 headphones. They're pretty high quality headphones.

11-27-2009, 11:10 AM	#18 (permalink)
Schizotypic Souls of Sound Sailors Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Mojave Posts: 759	Dude, you would be hated on What.cd from the looks of this test... apparently they all swear by FLAC files and VBR.

02-21-2010, 11:04 AM	#19 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	Alright, it seems people are not interested in doing this challenge, so I'm gonna take it down. I don't think I have enough results to bother with any kind of sophisticated statistics, but I'll post them here in case someone's curious. The test was listening to a four different versions of a 30 seconds mp3 encoded in different bitrates. You were asked to arrange sample 1, 2, 3 and 4 in the order lowest bitrate to highest. The correct sequence was : 2, 1, 4, 3 The bitrates (kbps) were : 128, 160, 256, 320. Those who took the test were assigned numbers. You can see how they did here : 2, 3, 1, 4 = 1 Rights 1, 3, 2, 4 = 0 Rights 4, 1, 2, 3 = 2 Rights 4, 3, 1, 2 = 0 Rights 2, 3, 1, 4 = 1 Rights 2, 4, 3, 1 = 1 Rights 1, 2, 4, 3 = 2 Rights 2, 1, 3, 4 = 2 Rights (Note that there are many possible ways of counting rights in this dataset. This just counts how many of the samples are in the right place in the sequence.) The average guessed sequence (counting which BR is found most often in each place) would be : 128, 320, 160, 256 Although there's not much data to base evidence on, from what I can see, people don't seem very good at separating bitrates higher than 160 and not really reliably down to 128 either. It's the result I would expect to find even with more data, so I'm not surprised. Maybe it'll make some people reconsider the worth of very high BR/lossless files even if there's nowhere as much data as I'd like. __________________ Something Completely Different