If you're the son, then Ki is Judas. :D

In The Gospel of Judas, Judas is actually the hero and the only one who understands Jesus true mystical teachings.

So this just begs the question, do we reall know what the historical Urban's true belief system was? Can we count on the canical posts to provide us an accurate picture of Urban and Ki's relationship? The debate continues.

Can I be Noah? Some of the members here need a drowning.

I think it's a bit strange with all the heat Ki's taking for his complaint.

He's offended by Urban's behaviour so obviously there's something that can be found offensive about the way Urban behaves. Everyone who knows Urban knows where Ki is coming from, even if they don't agree that it is unacceptable. That means there is something to complain about. It's not like it's coming out of the blue and has no relevance to real life.

Although it may not seem like it, I'm thinking of this in a general way and I'm not saying we should all rip on Urban. If I cared enough about the way he is with newbs, I would've brought it up when I was a mod, but I don't think I did. Anyways, point is moderators work for free for the betterment of the community and are people like you. You can't expect them to be without fault. Urban is not perfect, Janszoon is not perfect, Jackhammer wasn't perfect, Freebase Dali isn't perfect. I can think of a lot of things I did when I was a moderator that was complaint-worthy. If someone had directed a complaint against me when I was a mod, I would've been a bit humble towards that because I acknowledge that I'm not without fault. Not being faultless doesn't mean you're doing a **** job, but perhaps there is something you can improve on. Had such criticism been directed towards me, I would've taken it seriously and I know I wouldn't have liked it if people started retorting with childish troll-posts on my behalf, doing their best to make whoever dared open his mouth against me feel ostracised from the community for his audacity.

So, criticising moderators - as long as it's a relevant complaint - should be fair game in a "spill your guts" thread and is criticism really so dangerous that the community has to get together to fight the critics on subjects like this? Do we need a counter movement against one guy's dissatisfaction? That's not acting like a community. People who wants to defend Urban's position should make respectful arguments and not act like butthurt children. If they resort to simple trolling (like Aurora's first answer), their posts should not slip through the censor. At least, I thought that was the point of having this thread in this forum.

I don't share the same opinion of Urban and was a little too swamped at work to reply to Ki myself (the other mods pretty much said what I would have anyway) but I think Tore is right. Ki obviously just had it on his mind and he expressed it. Tis the purpose of the thread, after all.

The point of this thread is, as it says, to "spill your guts" so yes, aslong as its done in a respectful, constructive manner, people can share opinions like Ki did. Thats fine.

My issue is that he presented two examples of posts Urban has made and both, in my opinion, do not include anything I would infract, ban or punish anyone for, therefore I dont understand why this has become such a debate. I think it is clear from the responses that, while divided, the vast majority cant see the problem in it. This forces me to ask why this was done here and not in a PM? Ki is not just spilling his guts, he had a very specific gripe about one member and decided to make a public spectacle of it and I doubt I'm the only one that can say I couldn't give a toss about any of it.

He also mentioned an inconsistency with the avatar guidelines. As Urban pointed out, these are guidelines. If they are guidelines that need to be reviewed then fine, so be it. That can be looked at. I hadn't thought about it before, so thanks for bringing that up..

Is that seriously it? Is that what has resulted in 8 pages of crap?

I wouldn't have made Ki's complaint, but even if it's unpopular, I can see that it comes from a place of love and care for this community. I then hate to see him come under massive siege and seemingly left friendless without any support.

I'm not saying people should agree with him. I just figure if people were a little more tolerant, this wouldn't have happened and it wouldn't have turned into an 8 page drama.

It says "rules" at the moment so if they really only are guidelines, that should be made clear.

Source : http://www.musicbanter.com/editors-p...-requests.html

You think so, huh? In my experience of being hated and having had my demotion called for, I can tell you very often I felt like they didn't give a fat **** about the community. They felt slighted and they wanted vengeance.

Whatever Ki's rationale is, fair or unfair, I don't think Urban's up to anything that is destroying the community. He rarely if ever posts. And to echo the sentiments of Adidasss awhile ago. At a certain point, the community needs to have standards. We can't have a garden party every time someone says they enjoy something.

People make ****ty posts. Most times they go by without comment. Sometimes someone says they're ****ty. Its not detrimental to the community. Not nearly as detrimental as allowing boring, pleasantries to dominate the boards.

You're supposed to come here to mix it up. You're supposed to post here because you've got an opinion. And when those opinions clash with other posters, you're supposed to go to battle. That what we're supposed to do. The idea that we should be ****ing nice to everyone so that when we meet up in the "Do you piss in the shower" thread we can all get a good chuckle is not only a new concept but a ****ty one. Its an artificial mechanism to make artificial friends.

The people I've met on here that I'd actually want to hang out with are the ones who's jugular I've gone for and lost.

Jackhammer is awesome. I definitely didn't chalk him up to be a fan of Trance, but he posted some of my favorite tracks.

Then I guess we're just different, Brennan. Had the community turned on Urban because he voiced an unpopular opinion, then I would've argued his case. I hate to see a community turn on one of its own just because that person expresses an unpopular opinion. And needless to say, I don't see the need to "go after the jugular" of someone who's already been berated by half of the active community already.

I discuss and argue here a lot, but I'm not a drama queen. When I appreciate discussions the most is when each side of the conflict can exchange views with respect instead of resorting to namecalling and other sorts of douchebaggery. I always felt the best communities are the ones that can nurture and sustain that sort of friendly and respectful environment. That's community standards to me.