Lisnaholic

^ Yep, sensible advice that's simple to follow. An approach to kids that I consider unproductive is jwb's about avoiding them altogether, on the grounds that an adult and kid have nothing in common. Regardless of changing musical tastes across the generations, we all have this in common with kids: we were once their age.

As for books at school, it's a sad fact that we are obligated to study books whether we like them or not, and when it's the "not" we are likely to be put off them for life. That's a shame because some of those books we might have enjoyed if we first came across them as adults. That's why I'm mentioning these books and when I read them as well:-

At school:
Macbeth by Shakespeare - didn't like
Great Expectations - liked at first, then got bored
Lord of The Flies - liked and then re-enjoyed as an adult
Animal Farm - ditto

As an adult:
Moby Dick - unable to read even one chapter
Great Gatsby - enjoyed, partly by visualizing the movie of that elegant, doomed era. I was sufficiently impressed to read Tender Is The Night, which I preferred.
Tale Of Two Cities - the only Dickens I have so far actually enjoyed.

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"Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

Synthgirl

Oh god, can you imagine?! Moby Dick 2? The Great Gatsby: Resurrection? The Lord of the Flies Cinematic Universe?

I can only imagine the horrors.

Lisnaholic

Yes, that's just what I liked about it SGR! We know something the characters don't: that their era will come crashing down with the Great Depression and Second World War, so it adds a poignancy to everything going on in the story.

Vapiid characters? Yeah, from what I remember, the characters drift around in the midst of plenty but remain unfulfilled. To me that's interesting because they are caught in that great conundrum of the modern age, which Dr. John sums up pretty well:

How can we live in the kingdom and never see the throne?
Have all the riches and treasures and still feel like we're alone?

__________________
"Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

SGR

So you liked Gatsby but you didn't like Moby Dick? What did you dislike about Mo Deezy?

Per the characterization of the people in the book being unfulfilled and being caught in the great conundrum of the modern age, I can think of three novels in this vein and I hated them all:

Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises
Gatsby
Brett Easton Ellis's Less Than Zero

And while I hated Less than Zero the most, all three of them just have the most unlikeable characters ever. I think a good writer can make characters like this more appealing by either letting an interesting plot do the heavy lifting or by making the characters noticeably flawed (flawed besides being vapid and unlikeable that is) - example being Hubert Selby Jr.s "Requiem for a Dream".

Frownland

Yeah the characters in Twilight are vapid to achieve pulp appeal, the characters in Gatsby are vapid because the narrator is vapid and only presents them as they relate to him. The unreliable narrator aspect and the closing lines are what make it for me. The Twilight of the 20s were the OG pulp mags.

__________________

Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

SGR

Sure, vapid for different reasons.

But I disagree, I think the narrator of Gatsby was reliably boring.

Granted, all this being said, this distaste I have for the novel is strictly from a one-time read of it in 11th grade. It's been a long time, maybe I should read it again and see if I feel the same way. I try to do this every now and then with food I've disliked in the past. Sometimes, I find that my taste has changed over the years. One thing I'll give Gatsby, it's thankfully not a long novel (unlike Moby Dick).

Frownland

The books I vehemently hate that I had to read in high school are The Power of One (had to read that Forrest Gump garbage twice) and Fahrenheit 451 (everyone zeroes in on the censorship but I see it as a technophobic screed). Catcher in the Rye used to be on the list but I've come around.

__________________

Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Frownland

Ray Bradbury is a fat sack of donkey dicks.

It's short enough that there's no harm in reading it though.

__________________

Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

SGR

I haven't read it, but sounds like Frown dislikes it mostly because of tech-fear-mongering.

On a scale of 1 to Ted Kaczynski, how bad is the technophobia in it Frown?

Lisnaholic

Asked and answered, SGR ! I was fine with The GG and knew it wouldn't be a long haul. With "Mo Deezy", I already had plenty of experience with loooong wordy books and knew I didn't have the stamina to slog through another one that thick.

Fair enough! I have read but disliked several Hemingway books, though haven't tried The Sun Also Rises. Brett E E: I read a article about that book, which was sufficient to put me off it completely. Hubert Selby Jr. ? Never heard of this writer before.

Yeah, I remember Fitzgerald's style to be very much about surface appearances; people do things, but their motives and characters are left for us to work out. Sounds like you enjoy that ambiguity, Frownland? And, with some reservations, ribbons liked his style too:-

My tip would be: try Tender Is The Night instead. It's more autobiographical, so that instead of just entertaining us with a story, Fitzy G is telling us a bit more about his own experiences.

__________________
"Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953