Norg

tbo i know russia likes being allies with china put at the same time they know china does whats best for china ..so if they have to be alone in the world i guess they will just have to be alone

there country is big enough for them to be self isolated for a long time

Trollheart

Sorry but have you taken too many drugs?? Russia can be on their own but they can't survive against the west without China. China is their America. If someone invaded say France or the UK, America would be right in there as part of NATO, bringing the full weight of the US military to bear probably. They certainly would warn the aggressor not to **** with them unless they want to **** with America. China is the only major power that would support Russia if the West attacked them, which is about the only reason (as I've already said) that the Biden Train didn't ride into Moscow. If China tells Russia, start firing nukes and we're cutting you loose, they won't, because they know they'll have no support. If you understand this, then your post makes no sense, except perhaps in the rarefied heights of the Norgverse.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

rubber soul

Sorry to disagree with you, Trolls, but as Norg says, China only looks out for China. True. they would love to be able to more or less own Russia but they want American money more. If it comes to supporting Russia directly in a military way (we can't complain if China sends them weapons when we're doing the same with Ukraine but if they send troops...) and selling their wares to the Western World, I suspect they'll take the latter. Again, China wants to be an economic power more than anything else. Yes, I know they want Taiwan too but they've always been able to get around that.


Meanwhile, what do you think will happen now that Russian missiles have fallen (probably by mistake) into Poland? Do we wiggle out of it with the possibility that Russia might take it as an excuse to bomb Poland on purpose, or is this the beginning of the end?

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Norg

no one is invading russia

so yes they can be on there own and survive

Trollheart

Yeah my point is that Russia could only safely launch nukes if China were okay with it, and they've come out and said they are not. Like everyone, Xi Ping or whatever his name is doesn't really fancy the idea of destroying the world on general principles. If they have to side with anyone it won't be someone who's prepared to do that. So I believe that if Biden were to attack Russia directly - assuming he nuked Poland or whatever - China would not join up with Russia.

As to your question, I don't know, but I feel sure Putin will try to blame the Ukrainians on the strike.

Edit: thinking about it more: it was clearly an accident, and I think both sides will be anxious to make that clear. Biden is not going to want to contemplate having an attack on a NATO country, pushing him into direct confrontation with Putin, and to be fair, I really doubt Putin - in his moments of lucidity - wants that either, so he will either blame Ukraine and hope to drive a wedge through the "western alliance", or admit it was a mistake and no actual intent was there. I think everyone wants to avoid the consequences of treating it as a deliberate escalation and provocation from Moscow, and both sides will do all they can to downplay and even excuse it. As long as it's an isolated incident.
That's a great power you have, being able to tell the future.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

Trollheart

Okay, now it seems likely, almost certain that it was a Ukrainian missile, that it was an accident, and there seems to be a general consensus that there was no intention behind the strike. So I guess that's that.

Missile that struck Poland was "most likely" Ukrainian

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

rubber soul

Yes, it probably was a Ukrainian air defense missile. But that didn;t stop Medvedev from doing his sabre rattling


Russia's Medvedev says Polish missile incident shows West moving closer to world war

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Norg

Ukraine would like nothing more then 2 have nato jump in and help more

they would prob even attack Poland who Romania and try disguise it has a russian attack

there on a time clock now if trump wins i wouldn't say he would out right ally with russia but .... if trump wins Russia would have at least have a better relations with trump and could maybe cut a deal

The Batlord

I don't know why you deign to grace us with this level of analysis but I for one can already feel my brain lightening.

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SGR