Russia, Ukraine and World War III

TheBig3 · 03-01-2022, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

there's an implicit coercion when it comes to NATO though because of the economic dominance

self-determinism as long as everything you decide aligns with US priorities

Let's assume that's true. Which nation would you rather be beholden to?

TheBig3 · 03-01-2022, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

you want to be on The West's side because they're more powerful

If Russia was more powerful, you'd feel better about being affiliated with the country that has had the same leader since 2000, when the US has had

Clinton
Bush
Obama
Trump
Biden

?

TheBig3 · 03-01-2022, 03:25 PM

Alright. You're entitled to whatever opinion you'd like, I just wanted to ask.

TheBig3 · 03-01-2022, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

on the contrary, the only reason you'd want to be allied with a country capable of electing Donald Trump might be because there's economic consequences otherwise

Maybe, but it's slightly more complicated than that. The only way it wouldn't be is if you think there's no difference between those candidates I listed. Not in general, but as a rational actor on the international stage.

If you're the Ukraine, I think there's a major difference from Bush to Biden.

TheBig3 · 03-01-2022, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

there is but I think the deciding factor is just that The West is rich

and we're rich because our own historical acts of violence

How is China rich?

TheBig3 · 03-01-2022, 06:15 PM

in 1880 China was the global powerhouse of economic prosperity. Did they get there by acts of violence?

Looking at this chart, China has a $14.34T GDP. Britain has a $2.83T GDP. Assuming your statement about acts of violence gets people wealth, that assumes China's atrocities are 7x greater than that of the UK.

My point in all of this is to say that violence is a hallmark of all great nations. it might be fair to say violence made the US wealthy, but I would argue in the league of nations, America has some catching up to do in terms of global violence.

**Frownland** · 03-01-2022, 06:30 PM

Do we have to kill off Mexicans or something to achieve that level of greatness? We're about out of Natives.

Trollheart · 03-01-2022, 07:34 PM

If you do that, who'll clean your swimming pool? Didn't think of that, did ya?

The Batlord · 03-01-2022, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

there's an implicit coercion when it comes to NATO though because of the economic dominance

self-determinism as long as everything you decide aligns with US priorities

There's coercion in Russia's sphere of influence as well, and if you're Ukraine I imagine the coercion that didn't involve hundreds of years of occupation, the holodomor, and the ever present threat of invasion probably sounds a lot better, especially if it gives you protection from all of the above.

rubber soul · 03-02-2022, 09:09 AM

I just heard from my friend in Croatia and they're obviously concerned since they border Hungary. I told her being in NATO is a blessing because Putin knows if he invades a NATO country, it's nuclear war for sure and I'm sure Putin wouldn't want to be remembered as the man who destroyed the world, including and especially Russia.

03-01-2022, 03:25 PM	#183 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	Alright. You're entitled to whatever opinion you'd like, I just wanted to ask. __________________ I've moved to a new address

03-01-2022, 06:15 PM	#186 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	in 1880 China was the global powerhouse of economic prosperity. Did they get there by acts of violence? Looking at this chart, China has a $14.34T GDP. Britain has a $2.83T GDP. Assuming your statement about acts of violence gets people wealth, that assumes China's atrocities are 7x greater than that of the UK. My point in all of this is to say that violence is a hallmark of all great nations. it might be fair to say violence made the US wealthy, but I would argue in the league of nations, America has some catching up to do in terms of global violence. __________________ I've moved to a new address

03-01-2022, 06:30 PM	#187 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Do we have to kill off Mexicans or something to achieve that level of greatness? We're about out of Natives. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

03-01-2022, 07:34 PM	#188 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,994	If you do that, who'll clean your swimming pool? Didn't think of that, did ya? __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018