Will Biden be another one term president?

rostasi · 12-12-2021, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Last election and the election before that were also framed as choosing between autocracy and democracy.... Exactly how many times are we gonna get to choose?

Actually, it's been a choice for decades, but Americans are so myopic, that it's never, truly, a thought-out decision.
It's often expressed as "the guy" who'll be the savior. Charles is right when it comes to the vastness of the various
problems (or maybe the one BIG problem). I think that's the one aspect of the right-wing approach that stands out:
ingrain and fortify within small and large government(s).

~~jwb~~ · 12-12-2021, 07:01 PM

Sure but then the end of the world rhetoric takes on a different tone... If it's been that way for decades maybe we'll be saying the same **** in another decade

rostasi · 12-12-2021, 07:10 PM

There's a difference between predicted high-wind forecasts and
actually seeing the funnel cloud coming over the horizon. If you
didn't take action when you heard the news from experts, then
you'll certainly have a harder time preparing each day while the
danger approaches.

The Batlord · 12-12-2021, 07:47 PM

You know people have been talking about the expansion of the power of the executive but this hasn't taken the form of making the president more able to just do what he wants damn the torpedoes, it's just allowed him to make war in ways that benefits the entrenched political and economic interests of America without having to consult the electorate.

Trump for all his rhetoric about changing things just was more brazen about doing things that benefited the elites, and more brazen about doing the war on terror harder. And now Biden is taking up much that Trump did like selling weapons to the Saudis, brutalizing the border, rattling the sabers with China, cause that's just what America's entrenched interests want.

The only only thing the electorate decide is whether we're meaner or nicer to the blacks and the gays. Bernie tried to make the seemingly small change of shifting focus onto the actual people in America and their needs but this was so unspeakable to America's entrenched interests that the idea couldn't even be entertained in public debate.

~~jwb~~ · 12-12-2021, 11:02 PM

Tbf Trump was trying pretty hard to use the same executive power domestically.. especially to build the wall. It's true that executive power is most pronounced with warfare but i do think the president has more sway than they used to generally as well.

But i was just saying when you give the pitch we are voting to save our democracy and then you do that again the next time and the next time etc it starts to feel like standard campaign propaganda.

rostasi · 12-13-2021, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

But i was just saying when you give the pitch we are voting to save our democracy and then you do that again the next time and the next time etc it starts to feel like standard campaign propaganda.

It would seem that way if the person hearing it was acting like an empty
vessel into which anything can be poured. Yeah, there are way too many
people like that - hearing and/or looking for the reduced versions of things
that they can use to emotionally come to conclusions - and that's why an
educated populace is a dangerous populace to fanatics.

Generations that were older than me used to unequivocally trust people in
various professional positions. That included various kinds of doctors (even
psychiatrists) and all kinds of media types, and even lawyers. There's all kinds
of reasons for that to have changed, somewhat, in the past 50+ years especially,
but you still have a slight variation of that same ideal when it comes to the
acceptance or not of what's being fed to you on a daily basis thru all of these
media channels.

If someone is being told that democracy needs to be saved and they just
swallow that statement without question ... and then they're told it again and
again, yeah, of course, they'll become cynical and stop believing. The point is to
investigate the claim (if it's your first time hearing it) or if you've been hearing
it again and again and you have a history of, at least, basic rational analysis,
you'll know right away whether it's crap talk or not. The signs for all of this have
existed for a long time and too many people take the most basic of basics way
of dealing with things. Basic can be good in some instances, but really not good
when it comes to most areas satisfying the body politic.

Why did we have 7 million more votes for the Dem, but didn't have anywhere
near an equal percentage rise in the Congress? Yes, some complex reasons,
but also a simple one exists where people didn't understand the importance of
Congress for the whole of democracy. Kind of like: "Oh, Joe will take care of it."

Trollheart · 12-13-2021, 06:18 AM

Would it be a fair point to say that the dems are being way too soft on those who took part in the insurrection? Anyone who had an active part in that should be receiving years, not months or ****ing days, and anyone who organised it should be looking at close to a life sentence. It's sedition and treason, plain and simple, and if Biden terrified the right's supporters by sending these people to prison - proper prison, not some ****ing resort where they can kick back and write their poxy memoirs - for real terms, real sentences, maybe, just maybe they'd think twice before doing it again.

Trump's supporters should have been scared of Biden's revenge. Instead he and his party went "can't we all get along?" and though they gave him the finger, he did basically nothing. Few slaps on the wrist, few token prison sentences, don't do it again or we'll be cross. Imagine if the positions were reversed? Gallows, man. Gallows.

Only one side is terrified now of the other getting into power, and it's the ones who are waiting to drag your country down into a Philip K Dick/George Orwell-inspired terror state of fascism. Revenge, punishment and reprisals when/if the RepublicaNazis get back in, himming, hawing, shrugging, smiling weakly when the dems are in control. It's their own fault. Go ****ing hard or get the **** out of the way and be ready to bend over. They have had four years and really they've wasted them in terms of pushing back and proving that they have balls. Sadly, I'd have to say at the moment America deserves the manic Right, and that's what it's likely to get. "The Day Truth Died in America"....

The Batlord · 12-13-2021, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostasi

It would seem that way if the person hearing it was acting like an empty
vessel into which anything can be poured. Yeah, there are way too many
people like that - hearing and/or looking for the reduced versions of things
that they can use to emotionally come to conclusions - and that's why an
educated populace is a dangerous populace to fanatics.

Generations that were older than me used to unequivocally trust people in
various professional positions. That included various kinds of doctors (even
psychiatrists) and all kinds of media types, and even lawyers. There's all kinds
of reasons for that to have changed, somewhat, in the past 50+ years especially,
but you still have a slight variation of that same ideal when it comes to the
acceptance or not of what's being fed to you on a daily basis thru all of these
media channels.

If someone is being told that democracy needs to be saved and they just
swallow that statement without question ... and then they're told it again and
again, yeah, of course, they'll become cynical and stop believing. The point is to
investigate the claim (if it's your first time hearing it) or if you've been hearing
it again and again and you have a history of, at least, basic rational analysis,
you'll know right away whether it's crap talk or not. The signs for all of this have
existed for a long time and too many people take the most basic of basics way
of dealing with things. Basic can be good in some instances, but really not good
when it comes to most areas satisfying the body politic.

Why did we have 7 million more votes for the Dem, but didn't have anywhere
near an equal percentage rise in the Congress? Yes, some complex reasons,
but also a simple one exists where people didn't understand the importance of
Congress for the whole of democracy. Kind of like: "Oh, Joe will take care of it."

That time probably came at the latest when America won WW2 and inherited half the world's wealth and spent the next decades trying to hold onto every penny of it. Trump's just a symptom of how diseased the republic has become and the Dems have been part of it all along.

The Batlord · 12-13-2021, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Tbf Trump was trying pretty hard to use the same executive power domestically.. especially to build the wall. It's true that executive power is most pronounced with warfare but i do think the president has more sway than they used to generally as well.

But i was just saying when you give the pitch we are voting to save our democracy and then you do that again the next time and the next time etc it starts to feel like standard campaign propaganda.

Sure he can DO stuff, or try to do stuff, but just imagine if he tried to dismantle or defund the CIA or end US military operations overseas. If he wasn't outright assassinated I imagine he'd find himself immediately sidelined and the the powers that be would make damn sure he wasn't re-elected.

rubber soul · 12-13-2021, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Would it be a fair point to say that the dems are being way too soft on those who took part in the insurrection? Anyone who had an active part in that should be receiving years, not months or ****ing days, and anyone who organised it should be looking at close to a life sentence. It's sedition and treason, plain and simple, and if Biden terrified the right's supporters by sending these people to prison - proper prison, not some ****ing resort where they can kick back and write their poxy memoirs - for real terms, real sentences, maybe, just maybe they'd think twice before doing it again.

Trump's supporters should have been scared of Biden's revenge. Instead he and his party went "can't we all get along?" and though they gave him the finger, he did basically nothing. Few slaps on the wrist, few token prison sentences, don't do it again or we'll be cross. Imagine if the positions were reversed? Gallows, man. Gallows.

You sound like we should be acting like one of those banana republics. Punishing the other side for being the other side has only resulted in revenge wars upon revenge wars. Yes, those involved in the insurrection should be brought to justice, but we also need to show mercy. Yes, the high profile offenders should do some real time, hopefully with some of the people they despise the most, but maybe the average dupe who got drawn into the mess should get a break. Maybe I'm being naive, but, maybe if we can all realize none of us are inherently evil (well, most of us, anyway), we can find a way to the light at the end of the tunnel.

I mean there has to be a reason why Martin Luther King prevailed in history and Adolf Hitler didn't, right?

View Poll Results: Will Biden win in 2024?
Yes	5	38.46%
No, he will lose in the general election	1	7.69%
No, he will not be the Democratic candidate	7	53.85%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

12-13-2021, 06:18 AM	#37 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	Would it be a fair point to say that the dems are being way too soft on those who took part in the insurrection? Anyone who had an active part in that should be receiving years, not months or **ing days, and anyone who organised it should be looking at close to a life sentence. It's sedition and treason, plain and simple, and if Biden terrified the right's supporters by sending these people to prison - proper prison, not some ing resort where they can kick back and write their poxy memoirs - for real terms, real sentences, maybe, just maybe they'd think twice before doing it again. Trump's supporters should have been scared of Biden's revenge. Instead he and his party went "can't we all get along?" and though they gave him the finger, he did basically nothing. Few slaps on the wrist, few token prison sentences, don't do it again or we'll be cross. Imagine if the positions were reversed? Gallows, man. Gallows. Only one side is terrified now of the other getting into power, and it's the ones who are waiting to drag your country down into a Philip K Dick/George Orwell-inspired terror state of fascism. Revenge, punishment and reprisals when/if the RepublicaNazis get back in, himming, hawing, shrugging, smiling weakly when the dems are in control. It's their own fault. Go ing hard or get the ** out of the way and be ready to bend over. They have had four years and really they've wasted them in terms of pushing back and proving that they have balls. Sadly, I'd have to say at the moment America deserves the manic Right, and that's what it's likely to get. "The Day Truth Died in America".... __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

12-12-2021, 07:01 PM	#32 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Sure but then the end of the world rhetoric takes on a different tone... If it's been that way for decades maybe we'll be saying the same **** in another decade

12-12-2021, 07:10 PM	#33 (permalink)
rostasi . Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 4,007	There's a difference between predicted high-wind forecasts and actually seeing the funnel cloud coming over the horizon. If you didn't take action when you heard the news from experts, then you'll certainly have a harder time preparing each day while the danger approaches.

12-12-2021, 11:02 PM	#35 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Tbf Trump was trying pretty hard to use the same executive power domestically.. especially to build the wall. It's true that executive power is most pronounced with warfare but i do think the president has more sway than they used to generally as well. But i was just saying when you give the pitch we are voting to save our democracy and then you do that again the next time and the next time etc it starts to feel like standard campaign propaganda.