2020 US Election Thread

[jwb]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

You're both right. You can call it defeatism or doomerism but capitalist power structures are simply not going to be overthrown at least until climate change causes a worldwide economic collapse and capitalist quarterly earnings mentality is not going to allow for any meaningful change also until climate change causes a worldwide economic collapse.

... By that time it will be far too late to do anything about it so yes... That is literally defeatism.

[OccultHawk]

You’re fighting a losing battle that somehow increased consumption (and population) can result in less environmental impact. Technology cannot change physics.

[jwb]

Either you don't understand climate change or you're being disingenuous. You don't need to change physics. You need to change the output of certain greenhouse gasses. Technology can and does do that. Every nuclear power plant in the world is currently doing that. We just need to do it better.

Again, I'm not even trying to be offensive but you just seem to have given up on life. This original conversation was about who to vote for. If you're resigned to let the world burn then obviously you wouldn't bother to vote. It's pointless to even discuss any of this when that is your POV.

[OccultHawk]

I’m not going to ****ing vote.

And environmental devastation is about human consumption. Climate change is just one factor. Nonetheless climate change will not be solved and cannot be solved under capitalism.

The idea that I’m the one who’s given up when you’re playing make believe with reality astounds me. How the **** can people be so goddamn blind they think this **** is sustainable?

[TheBig3]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

I’m not going to ****ing vote.

And environmental devastation is about human consumption. Climate change is just one factor. Nonetheless climate change will not be solved and cannot be solved under capitalism.

The idea that I’m the one who’s given up when you’re playing make believe with reality astounds me. How the **** can people be so goddamn blind they think this **** is sustainable?

How many people would you consider blind before you start asking if you're the problem?

[The Batlord]

I mean if it's all so simple then why are capitalists like the Koch brothers pumping so much money into confounding the narrative around climate change? Doesn't that telegraph that no matter the reality of the viability of fixing climate change the actors causing climate change and who have disproportionate influence on climate policy at best have no interest in an honest public discussion on climate change and at worst are actively sabotaging climate change reform?

[jwb]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

I’m not going to ****ing vote.

And environmental devastation is about human consumption. Climate change is just one factor. Nonetheless climate change will not be solved and cannot be solved under capitalism.

The idea that I’m the one who’s given up when you’re playing make believe with reality astounds me. How the **** can people be so goddamn blind they think this **** is sustainable?

... You brought up climate change. I spoke on climate change. Now you say it's just one factor and it's human consumption that needs to stop. But yeah. You're definitely not giving up on humanity. We just need to Genocide 90+% of the population and go back to living in mud huts. **** outta here.

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by TheBig3

How many people would you consider blind before you start asking if you're the problem?

All of humanity could try to tell me that you can deplete resources faster than they’re being renewed and remain sustainable and I would stand completely alone and entirely correct.

[jwb]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I mean if it's all so simple then why are capitalists like the Koch brothers pumping so much money into confounding the narrative around climate change? Doesn't that telegraph that no matter the reality of the viability of fixing climate change the actors causing climate change and who have disproportionate influence on climate policy at best have no interest in an honest public discussion on climate change and at worst are actively sabotaging climate change reform?

don't think I or anyone else said is simple at all

The chances for failure are definitely better than the chances for success

But it's not impossible to address through intensive govt research and development. That is not an easy or particularly feasible political goal in this country. But I've yet to hear a better or more feasible idea.

[TheBig3]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

All of humanity could try to tell me that you can deplete resources faster than they’re being renewed and remain sustainable and I would stand completely alone and entirely correct.

Which resources are you referring to? I assume it isn't electricity. Are you specifically talking about food and water?