2020 US Election Thread

[jwb]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

I’m not trying to be defensive but I get that

From wiki


That’s why I mentioned the senate. It’s the two senators whether you’re in Montana or California that kills things.

But it wouldn’t be so bad if we actually honored the 10th Amendment

The Senate is actually a different but related question. I also think it's unfair but if I had to choose I'd rather get rid of the electoral college than reform the Senate.

What you quoted about the electors mirroring the representation in the house still doesn't quite factor in that both are structured to favor small states over large states. But only the electoral college has the confounding factor that in most states (the ones who are winner take all and vote either consistently red or blue) your vote for president literally doesn't matter. This means the vote of most Americans is utterly meaningless in presidential elections.

Also to be clear getting rid of the electoral college doesn't affect the 10th amendment, which only states that powers not specifically designated to the federal government are assumed by the states. This has nothing to do with the procedure of federal elections.

[Anteater]

Originally Posted by jwb

The other aspect is most states use winner take all method of distributing their electoral points. So whichever party wins the popular vote in said state gets all of the electoral points, as opposed to the proportional method where if the Dems get 60% of the vote and the Reps get 40%, they split the electoral points 60/40. If every state adopted this proportional method then at the very least everyone's vote would count, though smaller state voters would still count more.

I'm actually open to the idea of a more proportional method. Right now the only alternative to having the electoral college is basically just letting California and New York decide every election, so we need something more like a baby step in a different direction.

[OccultHawk]

What you quoted about the electors mirroring the representation in the house still doesn't quite factor in that both are structured to favor small states over large states.

It’s the senate plus the house. It’s the only two senators thing that causes the imbalance.

Also to be clear getting rid of the electoral college doesn't affect the 10th amendment

The relationship is the overreach of the federal government that wouldn’t be allowed if the 10th amendment was legit followed.

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by Anteater

I'm actually open to the idea of a more proportional method. Right now the only alternative to having the electoral college is basically just letting California and New York decide every election, so we need something more like a baby step in a different direction.

People should count less because they live in NY or Cali? Why?

[Anteater]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

People should count less because they live in NY or Cali? Why?

Cause the U.S. is a big place and Hollywood can't hire everybody. Is there something inherently special about those particular states compared to people living everywhere else?

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by Anteater

Cause the U.S. is a big place and Hollywood can't hire everybody.

One vote in Montana would still be an entire vote just not greater than one.

[jwb]

Originally Posted by Anteater

I'm actually open to the idea of a more proportional method. Right now the only alternative to having the electoral college is basically just letting California and New York decide every election, so we need something more like a baby step in a different direction.

That wouldn't happen lol. The parties shape themselves based on popular opinion. If the electoral college disappeared then both parties would be forced to change their electoral strategies, especially the Republicans. Or else they would be replaced by another party that could compete. The idea it would lead to a one party state is completely unfounded. Last time we lost a political party they were replaced immediately by the Republican party.

Very likely our national politics would move somewhat to the left, as a reflection of our actual population. But most likely the rural/urban split would remain. Except in this case the Republicans or their replacements would be competing not just for red or purple states but red or purple populations... Including many people living in blue states currently ignored by Republicans in the national elections. And the same would be true for Democrats in red states. I fail to see how this isn't an improvement.

[OccultHawk]

Is there something inherently special about those particular states compared to people living everywhere else?

No. They should get an equally weighted vote as individuals same as anywhere.

Honestly I don’t even care but that’s the point.

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by jwb

That wouldn't happen lol. The parties shape themselves based on popular opinion. If the electoral college disappeared then both parties would be forced to change their electoral strategies, especially the Republicans. Or else they would be replaced by another party that could compete. The idea it would lead to a one party state is completely unfounded. Last time we lost a political party they were replaced immediately by the Republican party.

Very likely our national politics would move somewhat to the left, as a reflection of our actual population. But most likely the rural/urban split would remain. Except in this case the Republicans or their replacements would be competing not just for red or purple states but red or purple populations... Including many people living in blue states currently ignored by Republicans in the national elections. And the same would be true for Democrats in red states. I fail to see how this isn't an improvement.

Even in Oregon you go 50 miles outside of Portland or Eugene and it might as well be Alabama.

[jwb]

Also there's severe irony in the talking point "NY and Cali would determine every election"when that's what currently happens except it's with completely ****ed states like Florida and Michigan and Ohio.