2020 US Election Thread

TheBig3 · 05-29-2021, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Yes, that's a very good point - and tbh there are plenty of worrying trends in Europe these days, incl Britain of course.

I'm fairly hopeful. Media literacy is really bad in my parents generation (the Boomers) and not that I wish it on anyone, but their monopoly on the voting booth is slowly waning. By 2024 enough will have shuffled off the mortal coil that we might return to some stability.

As Lindsey Graham said ahead of 2016, "we're running out of angry white guys."

Neapolitan · 05-30-2021, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

I'm fairly hopeful. Media literacy is really bad in my parents generation (the Boomers) and not that I wish it on anyone, but their monopoly on the voting booth is slowly waning. By 2024 enough will have shuffled off the mortal coil that we might return to some stability.

As Lindsey Graham said ahead of 2016, "we're running out of angry white guys."

Boomers voted in Biden and you can't wait till they pop off? (Not my sentiment but seemingly yours. It's just oozing from the subtext.)

Lisnaholic · 05-30-2021, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

I'm fairly hopeful. Media literacy is really bad in my parents generation (the Boomers) and not that I wish it on anyone, but their monopoly on the voting booth is slowly waning. By 2024 enough will have shuffled off the mortal coil that we might return to some stability.

As Lindsey Graham said ahead of 2016, "we're running out of angry white guys."

That's a funny quotation, but I suspect Batlord is right, if he's suggesting that there is a whole new generation of angry white guys. Also as Neapolitan says, Boomers were voting Biden too.

Another also: "media literacy" has mixed effects, I suspect. There are probably some Republican Boomers who can't find their way into those QAnon websites, or Trump's version of a blog by "somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds." The Boomers can't get themselves radicalised as efficiently as the media-literate can.

Bottom line: I'd like you to be right, Big3, the same way I'd like Biden to establish some bipartisan rapport, but I'm worried you're both underestimating the unscrupulous venom of Republicans. I remember someone saying that the Dems were like someone taking a spoon to a knife fight. And that is how democracy is, right now, getting stabbed in the back. One knife thrust is the picking apart of a fair election result to muddy the waters and plant doubts about election integrity. The other knife thrust is:-

Quote:

A new report last week from the Brennan Center for Justice found that at least 14 states have already enacted more than 20 laws making it harder for Americans to vote. At least 61 bills with restrictive provisions are moving through 18 state legislatures, according to the Brennan Center report, and at least 389 restrictive bills have been introduced in 48 of the 50 states during the 2021 legislative sessions.

Of course, election integrity doubts only apply to Biden's victory. I have yet to hear any elected Republican say "Maybe I shouldn't be here myself", even though the vote that put them in office was often on the self-same ballot paper that they are disputing. [Anybody is welcome to fact check me on that last point, btw - I may be wrong about how those ballot papers work.]

TheBig3 · 05-30-2021, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Bottom line: I'd like you to be right, Big3, the same way I'd like Biden to establish some bipartisan rapport, but I'm worried you're both underestimating the unscrupulous venom of Republicans.

I'm not. To steal a line from Game of Thrones, I think they'd burn the country down if they could be king of the ashes.

The issue is I don't think the country will tolerate it. Trump is an election loser. And the GOP can't run against Biden like they wanted to. They tried to make him the Antifa candidate and they lost. They lost in Georgia and Arizona which is embarrassing. I had a professor once say "The toughest thing to do in lobbying is not to go against opposition but indifference." That's relevant here. The GOP can't win if:

1. People vote (which is why the suppression laws are cropping up)
2. They don't have grievance.

Suppression laws aren't new. And we've overcome them before. It's a turnout issue because the Left is consistently stupid. They say things like "lesser of two evils" and "neoliberals are Republicans" or **** like "Bernie is great and should be President." and so most of them stay home. The GOP never beats the Left. The Left beats the Left.

Obama was black, so it was easy to scare white folks who don't have media literacy. A sad thing to admit but it's the truth. They tried to destroy Bill Clinton and they failed. They're trying to destroy Biden but they haven't been able to so far. He isn't what they keep claiming he is. And he's got them on the run to some degree with this Jan. 6th Commission. The more they talk about that the more consistently they're ****ed.

Biden knows how the game is played, it would seem. He doesn't take the bait, he knows how to Dog Whistle to working class voters with things that I admittedly roll my eyes at, but when he says things like "Man, my father knew how to drive a car." - it's a common cultural view of the world. And it's a defanging.

Combine this with the fact that the GOP is moving "rightward" in a direction that people can't relate to. In a gerrymandered district you might win. But those people effect elections. Remember the 2012 election where two Republicans made idiotic comments about rape? "If it's real rape, bodies have ways of shutting that whole thing down." Those people damage the party. And we keep moving in the direction. If you really want to win 2024, keep Matt Gaetz in office.

As for the Boomers, yes, some will vote for Biden. Sure. But the GOP is increasingly White, Male, Non-College Educated. And because of that, they keep playing up to issues for that demographic. But the GOP lost because of Suburban Woman largely. And what have they done to secure those votes? Throw Liz Cheney out of office? Trumps lack of a megaphone, and Biden seeming to get both COVID and the economy back on track is going to hurt the GOP.

Not everything is great. People moving South has given Red States more seats, and the mid-terms generally favor the party out of power. But keep in mind that the GOP campaigned on repealing Obamacare for 7 years and they couldn't do it. The problem with Power is you have to do what you campaigned on. When you don't, you lose. And the GOP isn't moving in the "let's get people who can write bills" direction. Unless the Left does the same (and thankfully those morons are about 15% of the Democratic Party) they'll do well in 2024. That said, State Legislatures are a real concern.

Neapolitan · 05-30-2021, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

It's not great days for the US, but it's been worse.

But the scandal stuff is because there's no gatekeeping media any longer. And there's no cultural uniformity as there is in other Western Democracies.

Is that meant as a joke and it totally flew right over me? If that's not irony then that is a perfect example of selective tolerance. You see no gatekeeping, perhaps it happens to people you don't care for and of no consequences to you, but half the country sees nothing but gatekeeping. Unless you been living under a rock ... or in your case a Bostonian cobblestone ... how could you not recognize there is censorship from big tech? I'm not saying you should be in full blown panic mode but “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.” ... or in this case the media.