MB's Own November Midterm Election

Lisnaholic · 11-05-2018, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Because you're giving a pass to evil?

^ To me, not voting gives a very similar message. It's saying, I don't care who does what.

Quote:

Voting for a candidate tells them "people voted for me, so I can do what I want."

^ I'm guessing that neither of us have ever spoken to a winning candidate, so this is prob partly conjecture. For all we know, voting for a candidate might tell them, "Those guys voted for me. I'd better do a good job so they'll vote for me again." As for the "do what I want bit", that's supposedly restricted by the US Constitution's famous checks and balances and the freedom of the press. In 2016 the people elected a leader and party that aren't using those checks and balances and are calling the free press "the enemy of the people". By not voting that party out, people are really sending a message of "do what you want."

Quote:

Plus, haven't I already said that sales pamphlets are useless?

^ Yes, though it's still unclear to me why you are saying that. Isn't it commonly accepted that sales pamphlets are full of exaggerations, but include some kernals of truth too.
Is this article a sales pamphlet ? https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...anning-to-vote

Is this quote from the article an example of the evil we encourage by voting Dem?

Quote:

Do you support lower college tuition loan rates, "free college for all,” net neutrality, gay rights or legalization of recreational marijuana?

All of these bills have overwhelming Democratic sponsorship and virtually no Republican sponsorship. The only way for these bills to become law is to vote for Democrats.

__________________________________________________ ____________

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I'd rather work at the local level where my actions arent meaningless, but I dont even do that cause politics are ****. I prefer voting with my dollar and volunteering for things I value (mostly environmental education/clean up) rather than trying to influence the machine.

^ That's commendably honest, and also commendable. I know you're tired of going round in circles in this thread, but I wonder if you ever talk to your clean-up buddies about whether voting Dem might help protect the environment?

Quote:

I'd rather work at the local level where my actions arent meaningless, but I dont even do that cause politics are ****

^

This reminded me of a famous English cartoon: two businessmen are walking past a homeless guy begging for money. As they look askance and walk on, this is their conversation:
Businessman A: Of course, I only donate to registered charities.
Businessman B: Neither do I.

**Frownland** · 11-05-2018, 12:19 PM

Let's compromise and agree that politicians will do whatever they want regardless of whether or not we vote for them.

Hey that kind of sounds like one of the reasons why they're not trustworthy.

And yes that article is absolutely a sales pitch.

DwnWthVwls · 11-05-2018, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Just because you vote doesn't mean you have to applaud anyone.

Absolutely but there is a large portion of vocal idiots that are applauding Trump and still repping Hillary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

DWV argues with elph for saying that people that want to be leaders are inherently evil.

Yet he refuses to vote because he assumes everybody that wants to be our leader is inherently evil.

Yeah you got me because the only leaders in the entire world are scumbag politicians. Way to disregard all the people in leadership roles taking initiative and making the world a better place.

~~[MERIT]~~ · 11-05-2018, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Perhaps unintentionally DWV seems to be implying a connection between "Stop voting" and "Demand better candidates." Actually, you can vote and demand better candidates too. Furthurmore, if people consistently vote for the best candidate offered to them, the candidates themselves will realize that the better they are, the more they are likely to win. Surely not voting just tells the candidate, "Most people aren't paying attention, so I can do what I like."

The problem with you not voting is that other people WILL vote. We need solidarity amongst voters [or non-voters], which we will never have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Why is "the lesser of two evils" approach so criticised?

Because you're voting to get f*cked over, just to a lesser degree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

iii) Supporting anarchy.
I think the popularity of anarchy has been the thing to surprise me most. I suspect it may sound exciting on the pages of a textbook or political tract, but in reality it devolves into a special kind of Hell. I've read about anarchy on the ground - in the Congo, in the Darian Gap and in war-torn Rwanda. What happens in these places is that armed bands of marauders prowl around killing, raping, kidnapping children and stealing. I don't see the appeal of that tbh: I prefer a political hierarchy in place that will, above all, protect the vulnerable.

A lot of people [if not most] have the wrong view and definition of "anarchy." Not having government doesn't automatically mean chaos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blarobbarg

I urge you to do a brief Google search of your candidate

^ THIS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Because you're giving a pass to evil

#QuotedForTruth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindfulness

voting all democrat tomorrow

Is this because you hate Donald Trump or because you researched each candidate and and found the Democratic ones to be better?

OccultHawk · 11-05-2018, 02:52 PM

Lisnaholic

You should at least come to a basic understanding of anarchism before you start citing examples like the Rwandan genocide as representative of the ideology in action.

Try the Pueblo Indians at their best.

If you’re just going to disregard it without educating yourself then (and I’m not trying to be rude) please don’t comment on it

It’s sort of like saying Judaism sucks. Look at Auschwitz. What a ****ty place.

Lisnaholic · 11-05-2018, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Let's compromise and agree that politicians will do whatever they want regardless of whether or not we vote for them.
Hey that kind of sounds like one of the reasons why they're not trustworthy.

And yes that article is absolutely a sales pitch.

^ Yes, I could go along with that, although I'd prefer to swap the word "will" for "maybe quite often in some circumstances might."

__________________________________________________ __________________

ME: Why is the "lesser of two evils" approach so criticised?
MERIT: Because you're voting to get f*cked over, just to a lesser degree.
ME AGAIN: Well, if you're f*cked over to a lesser degree, then you might arrive at this point:

Also, by not voting, you abdicate all say in how f*cked over you are, so if anything, [MERIT] you seem to be supporting the idea that you should vote for the lesser evil. Thanks, I think.
__________________________________________________ _________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Lisnaholic

You should at least come to a basic understanding of anarchism before you start citing examples like the Rwandan genocide as representative of the ideology in action.

Try the Pueblo Indians at their best.

If you’re just going to disregard it without educating yourself then (and I’m not trying to be rude) please don’t comment on it

^ Maybe anarchism doesn't always end up in chaos. I forgot that some communities of like-minded thinkers, hippies and hunter-gatherers have been able to live in peaceful anarchy. But in the more prevalent modern circumstance, where resources are scarce and guns are plentiful, I don't think anarchy works very well, esp for the vulnerable. Still, I take your point and will def look at the Pueblo Indians. If I have the patience I'll educate myself a bit more on anarchy, though tbh, in the new tradition of internet debate, I may just trawl though wikipedia until I find some zingers that will support my position.

**Frownland** · 11-05-2018, 04:32 PM

"Would you prefer Billy or John to beat you up? Neither? Well okay then but you don't get to complain about it!"

~~[MERIT]~~ · 11-05-2018, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

"Would you prefer Billy or John to beat you up? Neither? Well okay then but you don't get to complain about it!"

#QuotedForTruth

Frown, are you hip to the Convention of the States?

Lisnaholic · 11-05-2018, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

"Would you prefer Billy or John to beat you up? Neither? Well okay then but you don't get to complain about it!"

^ Vote for the guy who wins/Vote for the guy who loses/ Don't vote - as far as I'm concerned we all retain the right to complain. i for one have never suggested taking that away from anybody.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

Something I notice is that several people are reading into the act of voting something that isn't there. I disagree with all the bolded bits declaring that a vote is more than what it is:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66Sexy

If you vote for someone you don't agree with you are still voting for every single thing they have or will do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Because you're giving a pass to evil? Voting for a candidate tells them "people voted for me, so I can do what I want."

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Sure, but I'm not going to do both until there is an actual candidate worth voting for. In the meantime I'll live and die doing the best I can to enjoy my life and have a net positive effect on society while the droves of idiots continue to applaud and accept disgusting individuals as suitable candidates.

To me, a vote is just a way of nudging history in a preferential direction, either nationally, as in blocking Trump's notion of governance, or locally, as Blarobbarg suggests:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blarobbarg

PS- I get it if y'all are totally fed up with politics, I am too, but at least vote on things that are local to you. School boards, local laws, county sheriffs; those have tangible effects on your community, and on you.

**** politicians for the most part, but our communities matter. Our students matter. If someone gets onto a school board who rips away funding for opportunities, for the arts, for mental health assistance, that's on your head if you did nothing about it.

That's all I really have to contribute to this garbage fire thread.

**Frownland** · 11-05-2018, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Something I notice is that several people are reading into the act of voting something that isn't there. I disagree with all the bolded bits declaring that a vote is more than what it is:

Quote:

If you vote for someone you don't agree with you are still voting for every single thing they have or will do.

What would you say of people who only voted for Trump because they knew he'd bring conservative judges? Are they only responsible for the judges or is it all of Trump's actions that they're responsible for? Because this applies to a great deal of his constituents who also felt that they were voting for the lesser of two evils.

View Poll Results: How will/would you vote on Nov 6?
Generic Democratic Candidate	8	47.06%
Generic Republican Candidate	2	11.76%
Other Candidate	2	11.76%
I don't vote in midterms	5	29.41%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

11-05-2018, 12:19 PM	#152 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Let's compromise and agree that politicians will do whatever they want regardless of whether or not we vote for them. Hey that kind of sounds like one of the reasons why they're not trustworthy. And yes that article is absolutely a sales pitch. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

11-05-2018, 02:52 PM	#155 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	Lisnaholic You should at least come to a basic understanding of anarchism before you start citing examples like the Rwandan genocide as representative of the ideology in action. Try the Pueblo Indians at their best. If you’re just going to disregard it without educating yourself then (and I’m not trying to be rude) please don’t comment on it It’s sort of like saying Judaism sucks. Look at Auschwitz. What a ****ty place. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

11-05-2018, 04:32 PM	#157 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	"Would you prefer Billy or John to beat you up? Neither? Well okay then but you don't get to complain about it!" __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

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