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View Poll Results: How will/would you vote on Nov 6?
Generic Democratic Candidate 8 47.06%
Generic Republican Candidate 2 11.76%
Other Candidate 2 11.76%
I don't vote in midterms 5 29.41%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-04-2018, 01:04 PM   #111 (permalink)
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This hierachy free model would require nearly everyone to agree that it's a good idea, which is a stretch. So there's gonna have to be someone to reinforce adherence to the model, lest it fall apart, but then we're back at square one.
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:05 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Thats just silly. There is nothing inherently evil about being a leader
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I'd vote for Trump
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:22 PM   #113 (permalink)
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There is something inherently evil about being expected to give your decision making rights to a leader.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:48 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Constant chaos and death. Great idea.
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:54 PM   #115 (permalink)
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I kind of appreciate the fact that no one is currently throwing around molotov cocktails in my street.
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:57 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
real freedom comes at a cost

is a safe life in a cage worth it
You're talking about a military though and besides a cult or something similar there is no more rigid hierarchy than a military. That's one instance where freedom would legit be the worst idea imaginable. And you don't just go from rigid hierarchy to no hierarchy, like... that doesn't make sense.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:05 PM   #117 (permalink)
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I really need to read up on that but that's not really a representative case.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:34 PM   #118 (permalink)
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To expound on what I've already said, I don't think there's fundamentally any difference in how modern citizens of democracies interact with their leaders (political or economic) with how peasants interacted with kings, emperors, and the nobility. We grumble about what they do but ultimately defer to them as masters of our fate. The only real difference is that every two or four or six or however many years we have legal recourse for our grumblings, but the existence of those other years reinforces our peasantry and allows them to co-opt our decision making.

I see this not as freedom but as a stop gap measure, a half measure that makes us complacent by giving us the illusion of progress, much in the same way that unions and minimum wage give workers the illusion that they have power over employers while in fact they are a band-aid to keep us complacent while we do nothing to deal with the core problem that makes workers subservient. Representative democracy gives the people the illusion of control over their country's future, but in fact simply gives our masters a certain benefit of the doubt that they are not in fact masters so that they can continue to exploit and control as have more de jure masters through out history.

We are still slaves. The power structures still exist as they always have. We just feel better about it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:44 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 66Sexy View Post
To expound on what I've already said, I don't think there's fundamentally any difference in how modern citizens of democracies interact with their leaders (political or economic) with how peasants interacted with kings, emperors, and the nobility. We grumble about what they do but ultimately defer to them as masters of our fate. The only real difference is that every two or four or six or however many years we have legal recourse for our grumblings, but the existence of those other years reinforces our peasantry and allows them to co-opt our decision making.

I see this not as freedom but as a stop gap measure, a half measure that makes us complacent by giving us the illusion of progress, much in the same way that unions and minimum wage give workers the illusion that they have power over employers while in fact they are a band-aid to keep us complacent while we do nothing to deal with the core problem that makes workers subservient. Representative democracy gives the people the illusion of control over their country's future, but in fact simply gives our masters a certain benefit of the doubt that they are not in fact masters so that they can continue to exploit and control as have more de jure masters through out history.

We are still slaves. The power structures still exist as they always have. We just feel better about it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discipline_and_Punish
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:54 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OccultHawk View Post
Foucault is a guy who I've become recently aware of and thought sounded very interesting. I think post-modernist philosophers would be very much up my alley but I just ordered American Power and the New Mandarins so I guess that'll have to hold on for a minute. I guess I'm finally starting my anarchist/socialist education properly or some such ****ing ****.

Edit: Eh I ordered it anyway.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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