Evil

Trollheart · 05-03-2018, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I didn't realize this was a serious thread about a childish concept. I figured I'd be par for course. Don't worry, I'm sure someone else will take a thread about "EEEEEVVVVVIIIIILLLLL!!!!!" seriously.

What in the OP convinced you I was joking? Nothing. Did I put this in the jokes subforum? No, I did not. So why would you think I was anything other than 100 percent serious?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

It's just kind of surface level and is already heavily treaded ground imo.

It's only surface level if you see it that way. There's plenty of discussion to be had.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

This thread has all of three "real responses" in it unless we move it to a religious forum, so who ****ing cares?

Seriously, just go **** yourself. Have another Steel Reserve, or whatever it is you're using to reduce what's left of your brain to mush.

The inherent question that everyone's ignoring or missing here is: why are certain things considered evil? Is it because of our religious upbringing? Is it because we're conditioned to accept it is? Is it because the majority, back in the mists of time, said it was? And what happens if that definition, the acceptance of what is evil changes?

If Hitler had won WWII or, if that's a tired concept (and of course it is) say ISIS succeed at some point in making this Earthistan, a global Islamic caliphate. Things that seem, and are, evil to us will not be so to them, and so the whole concept of evil may, over time, change. Execution for blasphemy? Evil now, here, yes. Under ISIS? We may learn to change our minds and accept that maybe it isn't. The rules are set by those in charge, so what if those in charge decided evil was ok? Look at the Purge movies. Sure, they're fantasy, but don't they demonstrate that, on some level, we only don't do evil because we're not allowed to, because we'll be punished if we do? If the penalty is removed, if we can kill, rape etc, is it still evil? Is government-sponsored murder on a wide scale evil? Of course it is. But why? What makes it evil, and who says it is?

It can all be a matter of perspective, as I hinted in the OP which everyone chose to ignore or laugh at. The Crusaders believed they were on God's work but the Moors and the people they butchered saw them as evil. Islam seems Christianity and any other religion as evil, for a long time Christianity was the same. Yeah, I know: **** religion. I agree. But it just shows that one man's perception of evil can be another's idea of good.

So I think there's a lot to discuss, including how certain things, actions, ideas came to be seen as evil, and what the very nature of evil itself is.

You know, it's a real pity. There are some incredibly intelligent people here - I don't count myself as one of them - and I've seen unbelievably deep and profound arguments discussed and debated in threads here, so it's sad that everyone is just passing up this opportunity to have a proper philosophical discussion, and would rather just laugh at my thread. But fine, do that: maybe we should intensely debate what the best cereal is, or who has the finest ass in music. I just thought it might be nice to use those juicy chess club brains some of you have, and debate something worthwhile.

Obviously not. I'll let you all get on with your day now. I have a new printer to set up anyway.

**Frownland** · 05-03-2018, 06:27 PM

Evil is as relative as any other subjective descriptor.

As far as this thread goes, it's a little too broad to generate discussion and the direction that you tried to push it in is a very old question that's honestly not that interesting.

Quit acting so sanctimoniously victimized at the response to your thread, it's obnoxious and you're better off trying to spark up new topics of discussion when your first swipe in an ambiguous thread such as this isn't successful.

OccultHawk · 05-03-2018, 06:35 PM

Here’s an attempt at functional definitions

Good- that which works toward alleviating all suffering and creating the ultimate state of bliss for all living things

Evil- that which works toward maximizing the total amount of suffering of all living things

Oriphiel · 05-03-2018, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Oriphice is evil incarnate.

You love it.

DwnWthVwls · 05-03-2018, 06:52 PM

With all my apathetic heart.

WWWP · 05-03-2018, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam

I think religious ideas can be very interesting if taken from more of a history/philosophy perspective. I'm an atheist through and through, but I like it as a topic - and not just to debunk it. Religion has had an insurmountably huge impact on human civilization throughout history. Even from the pen of a theologian, there can be a great deal of value said if you want to understand religion and religious people - which is arguably to understand humans to a large extent.

hell yeah, this is why i wasted my early college years (and financial aid) pursuing philosophy and religious studies. didn't take me anywhere career wise but i don't regret it in the least. plus my bookshelves make me look intellectual af.

WWWP · 05-03-2018, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Here’s an attempt at functional definitions

Good- that which works toward alleviating all suffering and creating the ultimate state of bliss for all living things

Evil- that which works toward maximizing the total amount of suffering of all living things

this is how i would define it as well and why i get weird looks when i say procreation is immoral.

grindy · 05-04-2018, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam

I think religious ideas can be very interesting if taken from more of a history/philosophy perspective. I'm an atheist through and through, but I like it as a topic - and not just to debunk it. Religion has had an insurmountably huge impact on human civilization throughout history. Even from the pen of a theologian, there can be a great deal of value said if you want to understand religion and religious people - which is arguably to understand humans to a large extent.

I love reading about religion from a historical point of view, written by historians and stuff. I assumed theologians aren't particularly scientific about how they approach religion and ramble on about nothing but I might be wrong.

Black Francis · 05-04-2018, 01:12 AM

Evil is Josef Fritzl.

The Batlord · 05-04-2018, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

What in the OP convinced you I was joking? Nothing. Did I put this in the jokes subforum? No, I did not. So why would you think I was anything other than 100 percent serious?

It's only surface level if you see it that way. There's plenty of discussion to be had.

Seriously, just go **** yourself. Have another Steel Reserve, or whatever it is you're using to reduce what's left of your brain to mush.

The inherent question that everyone's ignoring or missing here is: why are certain things considered evil? Is it because of our religious upbringing? Is it because we're conditioned to accept it is? Is it because the majority, back in the mists of time, said it was? And what happens if that definition, the acceptance of what is evil changes?

If Hitler had won WWII or, if that's a tired concept (and of course it is) say ISIS succeed at some point in making this Earthistan, a global Islamic caliphate. Things that seem, and are, evil to us will not be so to them, and so the whole concept of evil may, over time, change. Execution for blasphemy? Evil now, here, yes. Under ISIS? We may learn to change our minds and accept that maybe it isn't. The rules are set by those in charge, so what if those in charge decided evil was ok? Look at the Purge movies. Sure, they're fantasy, but don't they demonstrate that, on some level, we only don't do evil because we're not allowed to, because we'll be punished if we do? If the penalty is removed, if we can kill, rape etc, is it still evil? Is government-sponsored murder on a wide scale evil? Of course it is. But why? What makes it evil, and who says it is?

It can all be a matter of perspective, as I hinted in the OP which everyone chose to ignore or laugh at. The Crusaders believed they were on God's work but the Moors and the people they butchered saw them as evil. Islam seems Christianity and any other religion as evil, for a long time Christianity was the same. Yeah, I know: **** religion. I agree. But it just shows that one man's perception of evil can be another's idea of good.

So I think there's a lot to discuss, including how certain things, actions, ideas came to be seen as evil, and what the very nature of evil itself is.

You know, it's a real pity. There are some incredibly intelligent people here - I don't count myself as one of them - and I've seen unbelievably deep and profound arguments discussed and debated in threads here, so it's sad that everyone is just passing up this opportunity to have a proper philosophical discussion, and would rather just laugh at my thread. But fine, do that: maybe we should intensely debate what the best cereal is, or who has the finest ass in music. I just thought it might be nice to use those juicy chess club brains some of you have, and debate something worthwhile.

Obviously not. I'll let you all get on with your day now. I have a new printer to set up anyway.

05-03-2018, 06:27 PM	#22 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Evil is as relative as any other subjective descriptor. As far as this thread goes, it's a little too broad to generate discussion and the direction that you tried to push it in is a very old question that's honestly not that interesting. Quit acting so sanctimoniously victimized at the response to your thread, it's obnoxious and you're better off trying to spark up new topics of discussion when your first swipe in an ambiguous thread such as this isn't successful. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

05-03-2018, 06:35 PM	#23 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	Here’s an attempt at functional definitions Good- that which works toward alleviating all suffering and creating the ultimate state of bliss for all living things Evil- that which works toward maximizing the total amount of suffering of all living things __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

05-04-2018, 01:12 AM	#29 (permalink)
Black Francis Out of Place Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: in an abstract house Posts: 4,111	Evil is Josef Fritzl. __________________ "Hey Kids you got to meet the MIGHTY PIXIES!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbRbCtIgW3A