Is violence ever the answer?

OccultHawk · 05-31-2018, 12:16 PM

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Originally Posted by grindy

I've been pretty involved in AntiFa groups in my late teens. Fun, but dumb and douchey.

Maybe you should take a little more pride in your young self.

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Occupy Wall St.

but they kill people?

Maybe. Yeah, I mean ****. I’d respect that.

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people might just be dumb and rally behind the oppressors.

Some would and some wouldn’t.

People would think a lot harder about hoarding the world’s wealth. I’d bet on that. Bitches gettin got does that.

DwnWthVwls · 05-31-2018, 12:18 PM

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Originally Posted by elphenor

well even if you're an ends justifies the means type of guy, you'd justify your actions

Okay but thats not what i asked. Do you believe justified actions can also be immoral?

The Batlord · 05-31-2018, 12:22 PM

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Originally Posted by OccultHawk

People would think a lot harder about hoarding the world’s wealth. I’d bet on that. Bitches gettin got does that.

9/11 didn't shame America into seeing the Middle East's point of view, it not only solidified nationalism and prejudice but created prejudices that Americans didn't really feel yet since they didn't see Muslims as a "clear and present danger" yet. The thing that started any kind of change in perception was the lack of any subsequent threat from Islamists at home and seeing American soldiers coming home in body bags. And even that hasn't really engendered sympathy for the Middle East, just a weariness for continued conflict. The vast majority still don't give a **** what happens to Muslims, we're just tired of neverending war.

OccultHawk · 05-31-2018, 12:25 PM

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It wasn't the Black Panthers' radicalism that changed whitey's mind, it was MLK and Brown v. Board of Education. The Black Panthers reinforced us vs. them, but the peaceful protests reinforced the perception of black humanity.

Even if I’m limited in how eloquently I can can put this I hope you will just consider that the truth is social change needs a radical fringe even if they don’t get the results on paper. Even social scientists can’t measure for certain how minds were changed. Fear might inspire the ‘fight’ response in the short run but encourage dialogue later on.

OccultHawk · 05-31-2018, 12:27 PM

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Originally Posted by elphenor

the goal was not to get sympathy (lol)

the goal was to scare the **** out of us, and it worked for sure

Church

DwnWthVwls · 05-31-2018, 12:33 PM

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Originally Posted by elphenor

I guess I don't understand the question being that the morality of an action is the thing to be justified

I disagree. Use your noggen and think about it some more. I dont have time to hold your hand right now.

The Batlord · 05-31-2018, 12:34 PM

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Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Even if I’m limited in how eloquently I can can put this I hope you will just consider that the truth is social change needs a radical fringe even if they don’t get the results on paper. Even social scientists can’t measure for certain how minds were changed. Fear might inspire the ‘fight’ response in the short run but encourage dialogue later on.

I mean yeah, but unstable radicals with unrealistic expectations don't accomplish anything without moderate radicals to temper the reaction of the oppressive majority and provide realistic solutions that actually produce results (i.e. violence is worthless without calm minds to take up the cause). Radicals are a means to an end, but on their own they'll just stiffen resistance to their goals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

the goal was not to get sympathy (lol)

the goal was to scare the **** out of us, and it worked for sure

And accomplished nothing of substance beyond a bunch of dead people. Sure it and subsequent American reactions mobilized support for their cause, but who the **** wants to live in Afghanistan or Iraq who doesn't already live in Afghanistan or Iraq?

OccultHawk · 05-31-2018, 12:47 PM

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I mean yeah, but unstable radicals with unrealistic expectations don't accomplish anything without moderate radicals to temper the reaction of the oppressive majority and provide realistic solutions that actually produce results (i.e. violence is worthless without calm minds to take up the cause). Radicals are a means to an end, but on their own they'll just stiffen resistance to their goals.

Close enough to the same page.

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And accomplished nothing of substance beyond a bunch of dead people. Sure it and subsequent American reactions mobilized support for their cause, but who the **** wants to live in Afghanistan or Iraq who doesn't already live in Afghanistan or Iraq?

Two responses:

1) Islam in Europe after America’s short term response.
2) We’re a long way from seeing how it pans out long term.

Hell I’ll go a third, nothing works all the time.

Chula Vista · 05-31-2018, 12:47 PM

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Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I disagree. Use your noggen and think about it some more. I dont have time to hold your hand right now.

Perfect example of what I was trying to convey. So ****ing patronizing.

DwnWthVwls · 05-31-2018, 12:59 PM

Getting offended on behalf of other people now. Lul