Universal Basic Income or Class Warfare

DwnWthVwls · 12-18-2018, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

as compared to the marketplace which has decided Bezos is worth a billion times a normal worker?

can you really swallow that as a realistic assessment of what he contributes

I didn't say the marketplace has it right either. And you took that out of context for the point I was making to Ki.

DwnWthVwls · 12-18-2018, 09:45 PM

Like it or not competition is part of biology. The problem is the lows are too low and the highs are too high, but a middle ground can exist that allows for financial/material inequality without human suffering and explotation.

Key · 12-18-2018, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

by all means, in your case it's fine, I'm not passing a moral judgement

but wanting more wealth for exclusively yourself is greedy by definition

capitalism is meant to harness the power of greed

I didn't think you were so it's all good. I think what's getting intertwined is im talking more about the middle class asking for a wage increase at a job they love over someone who has accumulated a lot of wealth in their career that they also love. Or hate. Idk. With someone who is already pretty well off, yeah I'd agree that asking for more is a bit greedy. Its like asking for a mansion when youve already got a boat. But again, that also comes down to what they decide to do with that wealth which brings us back to point A.

OccultHawk · 12-18-2018, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

and this attitude will continue the exploitation of the workforce by making people compete with each other for the ever shrinking amount of slots in the middle class

I think it's an unhealthy relationship with self-worth to even worry about the quality of job others do

you need a pat on your head by your boss for being a good little boy

Kiii

You need to understand the truth in this man

for you to want any lower end working class person to make less than you for any reason demonstrates a spiritual void

You live with your mom - shelter comfort and nutrition are givens in your existence

I know you don’t and never have had a perfect life and I respect the obstacles you’ve overcome but you don’t know why your coworkers do what they do - maybe they have a kid with cancer, maybe they’re losing their toes to diabetes, maybe they’re struggling with mental illness.

I’m fifty trying to cook and keep up with 25 year olds. They could say **** that old pos but instead they’re kind and help me succeed. You know why? Because they understand life is ****ing hard and we need to have each other’s backs down here on the bottom.

I think you just wrote that on impulse. I don’t think that’s what’s in your heart. You’re better than that. <3

Lucem Ferre · 12-19-2018, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

this is comparable how?

I can't see why it's even worth mentioning

You're making a blanket statement about rich people that doesn't apply to every rich person as a form of propaganda. Then probably moving the goal post by saying that you're not truly rich unless you're this rich. If you're talking about the 1% I agree that they are immoral. But when you say rich I also think of a big house and a few cars. Not just being comfortable but living in excess. I don't agree with that statement at that point and what you're doing is the same as what they do to the poor.

I also don't agree that taking advantage of the excess that's available to you while others starve is as immoral as you'd think unless you're taking the food directly from their mouths. Point is, what ever you contribute is going to make very little impact on the state of hunger or poverty in the world. To really make a change you have to reform the way the world works. So why deny yourself the indulgence that's afforded to you out of guilt for something that's neither your fault nor in your control? Especially since we both know that if the roles were reversed they'd most likely behave the same way. Of course there is a point where you're making so much money that you can live in both excess and contribute towards charity in which case it'd be immoral not to.

Key · 12-19-2018, 12:51 AM

^buying stuff for yourself when you've worked hard for the money is not a bad thing.

DwnWthVwls · 12-19-2018, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

it seems you do understand however that excess in the face of poverty is inherently immoral

Cant have inherent morality in a subjective moral belief system. Let me know when you make up your mind about it, you dirty flipflopper.

Anyway... I dont necessarily disagree with where youre coming from but your solutions are never practical when discussing socio-economic problems. You approach these topics in a similar fashion to the way we have addressed environmental and climate problems, always in a rush to fight against nature and cover up the most disturbing parts of it rather than addressing the issues with practicable long term solutions. Burying the human waste isnt going to make it go away, elph. Sorry.

OccultHawk · 12-19-2018, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Point is, what ever you contribute is going to make very little impact on the state of hunger or poverty in the world.

One meal is of no small significance to a starving man.

OccultHawk · 12-19-2018, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiiii

^buying stuff for yourself when you've worked hard for the money is not a bad thing.

Say Doctors Without Borders announces that every five dollars will be used to save a life from dysentery. You buy a $500 laptop instead. 50 children die that you could’ve saved. We all do it but it is indeed shameful.

DwnWthVwls · 12-19-2018, 06:14 AM

I understand the point youre trying to make but thats awfully disingenuous and over simplified.

12-19-2018, 12:51 AM	#526 (permalink)
Key . Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 13,153	^buying stuff for yourself when you've worked hard for the money is not a bad thing.