Universal Basic Income or Class Warfare

OccultHawk · 11-28-2018, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma & Greg

I mean quite possibly and I'm not the most educated but still the idea of this being a concept that is introduced to the American public is exciting. I suspect that it won't even get that far and the public at large will remain as ignorant of the concept of UBI as they always have but if they can even be made aware that such a thing exists then does it matter who proposes it when they'll obviously never get elected anyway? I mean if I were to ask 9 out of 10 people on the street if they had the slightest idea of what UBI was what do you think they would say?

Yeah I totally agree.

9 out of 10 Americans can’t find Mexico on a map so...

I mean I’m not willing to say anything is impossible post-Trump

I can see vote for me I’ll give you $1000 a month for life possibly being a winner

Actually no matter how it’s paid for a grand a month would improve my life so much there’s no way I could be against it no matter how it’s funded

Imagine how much easier it would be for workers to strike knowing they wouldn’t starve

OccultHawk · 11-28-2018, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

Your missing out on the countless other things he's suggesting in addition to UBI. I know it isn't feasible that all of this would happen, but as I said before he's thought things through to a fair extent. He's basically Sanders or Ocasio-Cortez except unlike those clowns he knows how to actually structure and manage organizations to get **** done.

https://www.yang2020.com/policies/human-capitalism/

Capitalism needs to be destroyed not reformed.

The Batlord · 11-28-2018, 10:03 PM

It's definitely a hard concept to imagine on a grand scale.

OccultHawk · 11-28-2018, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma & Greg

It's definitely a hard concept to imagine on a grand scale.

Is it? The government is really good at sending out checks.

But from the standpoint of how deeply it would affect your life I can totally imagine people in the future talking about how horrifying life must have been before UBI the same way we talk about children being chained to their machines during the industrial revolution.

Anteater · 11-28-2018, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Capitalism needs to be destroyed not reformed.

Having spent a fair amount of time in the enterprise software world where the choice is always build vs buy, I can assure you it is a lot easier to fix or reform capitalism than it would be to destroy it.

Do you know why big projects fail often despite massive amounts of money spent? Because when there isn't a good solutions architect involved, the requirements tend to be badly mapped. Capitalism isn't any different (and neither is the government): the scale is just much higher.

If we had more people like Yang actually participating in government and at the reins of legislative process, we'd get a lot more done than we currently do. The problem is most people in government are not technical and also terrible at asking the right questions or identifying ideal solutions based on requirements.

OccultHawk · 11-28-2018, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

you can already get EBT to not starve

but can workers take care of their families with a grand a month?

some of the more liberal democrats have talked about mandating Unions, that's the way to go imo

“Universal” means everyone in the family gets a grand, too.

The Batlord · 11-28-2018, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Is it? The government is really good at sending out checks.

I mean the idea of what it might mean to how we live our lives is enough to make us balk at the law of unintended consequences when we're already in a situation that we believe more or less functions and doesn't make us starve. The majority of Americans aren't pleased with how things are working but we're willing to deal with it and we don't know how we'd deal with UBI so it would be scary. Scary trumps progress.

OccultHawk · 11-28-2018, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

children?

genuine question

In my plan triple **** yeah. From birth in your own account under your own control.

Anteater · 11-28-2018, 10:25 PM

This hasn't been mentioned yet either, but one other thing Yang has suggested to pay for UBI is implementing a 0.1 Financial Transaction Tax on the stock market or something along those lines.

~~[MERIT]~~ · 11-28-2018, 10:51 PM

Lots of countries have implemented UBI on some scale and have seen great success with the program.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

who the **** is going to live on 1k a month

why not take that money and put it into infrastructure and create jobs that pay enough to live off of

or pay for college for everyone

or do a 100 other more useful things than write a check that goes to a lot of people don't actually need it

So under this model, you're not allowed to work and gain money on top of your basic income?

Because that's f*cked up. But I'm pretty sure that no one is saying that.

I'm for UBI, as long as we change the monetary system and take control away from the central banks and let the government issuing the UBI print debt-free currency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

but on the topic of fossil fuels

moving off of them into green energy is again something that should be prioritized over this form of UBI

I agree that weening off of fossil fuels is more important in the long run, but who says that we can't do both?

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

this could be accomplished by having the gov mandate you a higher pay

I like the idea of being paid more money, who doesn't? But paying burger flippers and fry cooks $15/hour will double the price of the food. It already costs me almost $10 USD to eat at McDonalds. I refuse to pay twice that for their sh!tty food.

Government intervention isn't always the ace that people make it out to be. We should cut back national spending [especially military] and use the saved money to build up our infrastructure, passing tax reforms that make it possible for business owners to pay their workers more, without government mandates, by cutting the cost of living.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Unless you’re talking about cutting military spending by at least 99% you can **** off.

If you just pulled food stamps and disability from people who wanted cold cash instead

We need those safeguards for people who can’t budget at all or are vulnerable to the vampiric criminal sector that keeps an eagle eye out for people to exploit.

Out of all the ****ing ways to pay for it - taking food stamps and disability? ****ing Christ

I don't know about cutting military spending by 99%, but a HUGE cut needs to be done for, sure.

Food stamp eligibility is based on income. If you get UBI, it would most likely de facto make you ineligible for food stamps. Under disability, you are only allowed to earn a certain amount each month on top of your disability. UBI would count toward that amount, and any difference would be deducted from your disability payments, I assume.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Capitalism needs to be destroyed not reformed.

Capitalism isn't inherently bad, but when it's governed by bad people with bad interests and devolves into Corporatism, then it needs to be gutted and we can start over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

“Universal” means everyone in the family gets a grand, too.

In the countries that I have studied, UBI only applied to adults.