Universal Basic Income or Class Warfare

The Batlord · 12-10-2017, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Not sure if I’m buying that one.

This is from YOUR LINK:

I wonder if they make speakers...

I'm sure Chula never checked.

DwnWthVwls · 12-10-2017, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

this is a sort of meaningless truism of the system we inhabit akin to "life isn't fair"

for a minority of the population right now it's actually outright false

anarchic/communist schools of thought are built around reducing the "have to do" for the general population transferring it where it can be to the "want to do"

Okay, so based on your follow up reply, yeah I kind of agree that retirees and potentially trustfund stupid rich people do have that luxury more than we do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Soviet Russia provided opportunities for self expression in that you did get to choose your own job

at my current job I may express my individuality by choosing to wear a black shirt with pockets or a black shirt without pockets

so because a system allows for some self expression doesn't mean that the self expression is meaningful

and in there lies my critique neither Capitalism nor Authoritarian Communism provides meaningful individualism in a way that you'd want to boast about

Choose your own job from a list of approved jobs or can you literally go out and try to make a career out of anything? The freedom/individuality I was talking about is not following a dress code. It's about having the freedom to leave your black shirt job and pursue something that makes you happy. I am the individual I want to be and as a non-oppressed minority have every opportunity to make something of myself, idk what other kind of individualism and freedom you could ask for. Also, the rich have no control over me voting with my dollar contrary to what Chula tries to push on everyone. People shop at Walmart because they can't be bothered not to or simply don't care enough.

OccultHawk · 12-10-2017, 05:56 PM

having to live in a society that forces you to spend money to live would be repulsive even if they gave you the money but to set it up so you have to work to get money when you never even wanted to live in this sort of economy in the first place is ****ing sadistic

most people can’t imagine anything else so they don’t understand how oppressive this existence is

DwnWthVwls · 12-10-2017, 06:01 PM

I mean you can go around shouting how money is evil and we should get rid of it all you want, but until you come up with a better system that BILLIONS of people would take part in it's just a stupid utopian thought experiment.

The Batlord · 12-10-2017, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

having to live in a society that forces you to spend money to live would be repulsive even if they gave you the money but to set it up so you have to work to get money when you never even wanted to live in this sort of economy in the first place is ****ing sadistic

most people can’t imagine anything else so they don’t understand how oppressive this existence is

Indeed. Just the propaganda of expecting people to want to work and fetishizing work ethic indoctrinates people into corporatist mindsets, divides people based on class (since you want to work harder to rise in class and not move down or stay in lower classes), demonizes lower classes and their cultures (and minorities by extension) since they supposedly haven't worked hard enough, restricts the acceptance of lifestyles which are not based on consumerist "progress" (tattoos are a no-no, gotta have the right hair and clothes, and don't even talk about any sub-culture that would be seen as anathema to getting dat good corporate job), encourages being a "team player" at the expense of those who naturally are not "team players", etc.

I might be a lazy ****, but I don't see my "happy ending" in overcoming my basic nature and becoming a high-functioning, goal-oriented "employee"-type, as I just don't enjoy that mindset in general and would simply feel claustrophobic if I tried. But there's no way my worldview will ever be anything but marginalized in a capitalistic society.

OccultHawk · 12-10-2017, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I mean you can go around shouting how money is evil and we should get rid of it all you want, but until you come up with a better system that BILLIONS of people would take part in it's just a stupid utopian thought experiment.

I’d rather live like our anatomically modern ancerstors did for at least 200,000 years and every other living organism has lived forever: without money.

It’s not a utopian thought experiment. Our current situation, which is a temporary trap, is the weird anomaly.

OccultHawk · 12-10-2017, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

and they are broke because walmart eliminated the opprotunity for them to do anything but... work at walmart

We always think of the death and misery of the Chinese Cultural Revolution but along the way what the Red Guard did to impose their will on the feudal system would be the equivalent of tearing down every Walmart in America. Imagine how much ****ing fun that must have been! It would be like if Antifa was 50 million deep and ten times as radical. Even if it ended up terrible, the process would be worth it.

The Batlord · 12-10-2017, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

you can try to make a career out of anything in capitalism

but if your lottery ticket isn't pulled you have a list of approved jobs like everyone else

you get a job that society has a demand for that's just sad reality

And god forbid any number but the prescribed number of people rise above their station in life or else the whole **** show crashes around you and the middle class start having to worry about the lower classes competing for their jobs and the upper class have to worry about the middle class.

~~[MERIT]~~ · 12-10-2017, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

having to live in a society that forces you to spend money to live would be repulsive even if they gave you the money but to set it up so you have to work to get money when you never even wanted to live in this sort of economy in the first place is ****ing sadistic

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

I’d rather live like our anatomically modern ancerstors did for at least 200,000 years and every other living organism has lived forever: without money.

It’s not a utopian thought experiment. Our current situation, which is a temporary trap, is the weird anomaly.

OccultHawk · 12-10-2017, 11:45 PM

Quote:

your lazy ass is picturing a utopia where the robots do all the work for you.

What do expect? Black people got all upset about it.

12-10-2017, 05:56 PM	#173 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	having to live in a society that forces you to spend money to live would be repulsive even if they gave you the money but to set it up so you have to work to get money when you never even wanted to live in this sort of economy in the first place is ****ing sadistic most people can’t imagine anything else so they don’t understand how oppressive this existence is __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html