Catalonia

Trollheart · 10-29-2017, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey

Backing Spain atm.

Can't be having regions breaking off and declaring independence without a legal referendum, 42% voter turnout.

I support the Catalans right to a referendum though.

So you're changing your position now? A few days ago you were all for independence - that's surely why you made this thread - now you're not for it? Am I missing something? If Spain were saying not enough people declared for independence so **** off you're staying here, then fine, but you know that even if they did have a 100% turnout and everyone voted to secede, the Spanish would block that and, it looks like, roll the tanks in. I can't support that no matter what.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 10-29-2017, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

So you're changing your position now? A few days ago you were all for independence - that's surely why you made this thread - now you're not for it? Am I missing something? If Spain were saying not enough people declared for independence so **** off you're staying here, then fine, but you know that even if they did have a 100% turnout and everyone voted to secede, the Spanish would block that and, it looks like, roll the tanks in. I can't support that no matter what.

I haven't changed my position. I was in favour of the referendum and think the Spanish government and police have been on top trying to shut the first one down. No need for all that carry on.

But if they have a legal vote and its a majority yes vote then fair enough.

rubber soul · 10-29-2017, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey

Was a Catalonia vote mate only Catalans could vote, same as the Scottish referendum. If it was the whole of Spain it would have been a No.

Yeah but they're saying only 43% percent of Catalans even bothered to vote. The same thing happened with the Brexit vote. People who took it for granted that the Brexit vote would fail didn't bother to vote either. It isn't about whether you support Catalan independence or not and I don't know enough about it to know either way.

But you can't complain about something not going your way if you don't bother to vote on it.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 10-29-2017, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubber soul

Yeah but they're saying only 43% percent of Catlans even bothered to vote. The same thing happened with the Brexit vote. People who took it for granted that the Brexit vote would fail didn't bother to vote either. It isn't about whether you support Catlan independence of not and I don't know enough about it to know either way.

But you can't complain about something not going your way if you don't bother to vote on it.

Agree, if you don't vote you can't blame anyone but yourself if you don't get the result you want. The Remain guys who didn't vote

I think if it was binding, more would have come out to vote. A lot of guys were probably thinking it means nothing so what's the point. Even if Catalonia were saying they would declare independence if the result was a Yes maybe they saw all of this coming.

grindy · 10-29-2017, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubber soul

Yeah but they're saying only 43% percent of Catlans even bothered to vote. The same thing happened with the Brexit vote. People who took it for granted that the Brexit vote would fail didn't bother to vote either. It isn't about whether you support Catlan independence or not and I don't know enough about it to know either way.

But you can't complain about something not going your way if you don't bother to vote on it.

Unlike the Brexit vote the Catalan vote wasn't legitimate and wasn't being recognized by the Spanish state because separation wasn't a legal option to begin with.

OccultHawk · 10-29-2017, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

Unlike the Brexit vote the Catalan vote wasn't legitimate and wasn't being recognized by the Spanish state because separation wasn't a legal option to begin with.

Do you think there’s a case for the position that if the Catalans don’t recognize Spanish law they have a right to their own sovereignty?

This is a question for anyone: Over the past 30 years what has happened to incite this movement? Are Catalans treated poorly in Spain? This is harder for me to understand than Brexit. My impression of Barcelona is like everyone dances all night, gets laid, sleeps till noon, eats good food...

~~Cuthbert~~ · 10-29-2017, 09:11 AM

Catalonia independence: Huge Barcelona pro-Spain rally - BBC News

Quote:

Hundreds of thousands are attending a rally for Spanish unity in Barcelona after Catalonia was stripped of its autonomy for declaring independence.

Many of those protesting in the region's largest city chanted that sacked Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont should be jailed.

Quote:

Many of them waved Spanish flags and chanted "Viva Espana" and "The streets are for everyone" as they marched through Barcelona in support of Spanish unity and against Catalonia's unilateral declaration of independence.

Catalonia's main opposition party said the region's "silenced majority" was now speaking.

LoathsomePete · 10-29-2017, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Do you think there’s a case for the position that if the Catalans don’t recognize Spanish law they have a right to their own sovereignty?

This is a question for anyone: Over the past 30 years what has happened to incite this movement? Are Catalans treated poorly in Spain? This is harder for me to understand than Brexit. My impression of Barcelona is like everyone dances all night, gets laid, sleeps till noon, eats good food...

From what I've read on the matter, it appears as though the Catalonia region of Spain is one of the more wealthy regions. Given how hard Spain's economy has been hit, a part of me wonders if the usual cries national pride and identity have taken a backseat to the more economic concerns.

Trollheart · 10-29-2017, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey

I haven't changed my position. I was in favour of the referendum and think the Spanish government and police have been on top trying to shut the first one down. No need for all that carry on.

But if they have a legal vote and its a majority yes vote then fair enough.

??
Over the top, do you mean?

~~Cuthbert~~ · 10-29-2017, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

??
Over the top, do you mean?

I meant on top but it means the same thing anyway so yes. Police were out of order.