Jordan Peterson - Get a damn hoover, ey.

DwnWthVwls · 06-25-2018, 06:38 PM

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Originally Posted by The Batlord

Why not? We were brought into this world without our consent by a society that has children simply because it's instinctual, and then we're expected to show loyalty to our species and be productive members of society regardless of our own wants and needs. I'd say that any culture that acts in such a way does in fact owe the people it brings into the world for no other reason than because it wants to make more people.

We do more to harm ourselves and each other than any government ever has (minus some extreme examples). If you don't want to be a participating member of society, than work to create a society you'd like to participate in or gtfo. I'm not saying the government shouldn't give a **** about people and offer social safety nets, I'm saying it's pretty obvious that their are limitations on what it can do and approaching life with the attitude that they owe you is awful. That mentality puts major strain on what it can offer because it helps create an atmosphere of people who think they can just repeatedly **** up and be bailed out by the government, it's just not realistic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

So human psychology needs to change? You think that's reasonable? Our psyches have been developed over millions of years and no amount of bootstrap logic is going to change how the human race functions. Certain individuals might be able to pull themselves up but human history has shown for thousands of years that the natural state of most societies is poverty.

Yes. Modern social systems and the ways we think and interact are significantly different than they have been in the very recent past. Do you think it's reasonable to hold the position, "o well, we've done enough, let's just stop trying to improve"? What are you, anti-everyonegetsatrophy until the game is life? I'm not expecting it to happen over night, but all you have to do is look at the history of black america to understand that we can improve on the human condition. Better yet look at the influence of social media and the internet on the human psyche. People need to put in more work and educate themselves. There are a multitude of things that can be fixed without relying on the government, and I'm not going to sit here and blame big brother because people are unwilling to make a personal effort to fix them.

OccultHawk · 06-25-2018, 06:54 PM

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all you have to do is look at the history of black america to understand that we can improve on the human condition

Congrats to American blacks. You’ve fought hard for over three centuries and you’ve finally moved from the plantations to the prisons.

The Batlord · 06-25-2018, 07:02 PM

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Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

We do more to harm ourselves and each other than any government ever has (minus some extreme examples). If you don't want to be a participating member of society, than work to create a society you'd like to participate in or gtfo.

And go where? Go back to Africa? Go live in Russia? What exactly are my alternatives?

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I'm not saying the government shouldn't give a **** about people and offer social safety nets, I'm saying it's pretty obvious that their are limitations on what it can do and approaching life with the attitude that they owe you is awful. That mentality puts major strain on what it can offer because it helps create an atmosphere of people who think they can just repeatedly **** up and be bailed out by the government, it's just not realistic.

Whether or not it's psychologically healthy is another issue. My point is that in general nobody has the right to expect anything from anyone, unless it's the society that forced them into existence. That society (and your parents obviously) is entirely responsible for you being put into the situation you were in at birth.

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Yes. Modern social systems and the ways we think and interact are significantly different than they have been in the very recent past. Do you think it's reasonable to hold the position, "o well, we've done enough, let's just stop trying to improve"? What are you, anti-everyonegetsatrophy until the game is life? I'm not expecting it to happen over night, but all you have to do is look at the history of black america to understand that we can improve on the human condition. Better yet look at the influence of social media and the internet on the human psyche. People need to put in more work and educate themselves. There are a multitude of things that can be fixed without relying on the government, and I'm not going to sit here and blame big brother because people are unwilling to make a personal effort to fix them.

They certainly provide different stimuli to affect the development of our psychology, but I think the last couple hundred years of democracy has shown that by and large we still treat democracy like a monarchy. We want our president/king to lead us and make us feel safe, we want our legislature/nobility to run our lives for us while being less important than the president/king, and we want to let all this happen on the periphery of our awareness so we can go about our daily lives without all the complications of running a country.

We have not fundamentally changed. Such sweeping changes to human psychology are going to take hundreds, perhaps even thousands of years, meanwhile we're stuck here wondering how divine right has left us with such meh kings. And I doubt that the communal living structure of city life -- where we don't grow our own food, require supermarkets to obtain the food we didn't grow, don't build our own houses, send our children to a government building for hours a day, rely on utilities provided by either the government or corporations, etc etc etc -- is going to be conducive to teaching us to be more self-reliant. If you want that then you need to provide the correct stimuli to push us in that direction, which I do not believe currently exists or will exist without a radical restructuring of human society.