Jordan Peterson - Get a damn hoover, ey.

Neapolitan · 06-22-2018, 12:15 AM

I guess your derision of Peterson doesn't come from your own volition, but from the external forces of society acting on your brain cells.

Lucem Ferre · 06-22-2018, 02:35 AM

Jordan Peterson sucks.

OccultHawk · 06-22-2018, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Jordan Peterson sucks.

Even though I think he’s interesting to listen to, yeah you’re right.

There’s no workaround that a Christian cannot be a competent psychologist. You boil him down and you got a Christian. That’s an instant disqualifier.

**Goofle** · 06-22-2018, 04:42 AM

My main issue with Peterson is that he's actually a completely unaware post-modernist.

DwnWthVwls · 06-22-2018, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

people can not pull themselves up by their bootstraps, we are at the mercy of an unjust society and an indifferent universe

And your answer to that seems to be coddling everyone and making us reliant on the government that is partially to blame for the environment we live in. Yeah, no thanks, ill preach self reliance and small community support until the day 1) we have a government not riddled with corruption that is as fallable as we are and 2) government reliance is not something people think they are owed.

Your ideologies are partially to blame for the hypersensitivity, obliviousness, and inability to cope that many young people are struggling with. Theyre not only stupid but dangerous. People can and do pull themselves up all the time.

OccultHawk · 06-22-2018, 07:27 AM

Quote:

government reliance is not something people think they are owed.

Public reliance is definitely something the government thinks its owed. If citizens don’t get their welfare they go hungry. If the government doesn’t get their welfare (taxes) they put their citizens in prisons. Who’s really acting entitled?

DwnWthVwls · 06-22-2018, 07:40 AM

So if self reliance is just a bunch of self help guru bs and people cant pull themselves up by their bootstraps and ideally we shouldnt rely on the government and capitalism restricts community reaources by contolling wealth, than what sort of practical measures should we take to improve the general well being of our own existence and our society?

Seems to me if you get rid of the first part and people start relying on themselves that it would improve society across the board and fit your ideal of not relying on government.

DwnWthVwls · 06-25-2018, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Public reliance is definitely something the government thinks its owed. If citizens don’t get their welfare they go hungry. If the government doesn’t get their welfare (taxes) they put their citizens in prisons. Who’s really acting entitled?

Both need improvement. The point of my criticisms is to say what people can do to improve their situation despite a government that sucks, not pointing fingers and accomplish nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

again instead of blaming it on some vague psychological state,

why don't we consider that, for example, it is objectively harder for the generation reaching college age to afford it than the previous generation, or that the cost of living is objectively harder to manage given inflation and stagnant wages or that objectively life expectancy is declining for the first time since the 1960's etc.

these seem much more tangible reasons for the feeling of hopelessness in those under 35

you seem a reasonable scientific minded person, why don't you apply that intellectual integrity in the realm of public policy?

I haven't seen the stats on that, but I'm okay agreeing. Let's say that's true, if the government isn't doing anything about it what can we do to make it better on ourselves besides taking more responsibility for our actions? I don't see what complaining and being helpless accomplishes. If we know the government is going to **** us out of healthcare don't you think it's in your best interest to try and do as few things that put your health at risk as possible?

Idk how to apply scientific reasoning to public policy tbh. I form opinions based on my best understanding of how people can improve their situation even with a dysfunctional/corrupt government. It's very hard to analyze statistics in the social realm because 1) there are SOOO many variables and 2) if people don't like the stats, no matter how well they were performed, it typically leads to some sort of race baiting dialogue or social justice point of contention.. People don't even like hearing facts in science if they don't like what it means, they certainly don't want their opinions countered by social statistics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

no government = no protection for private property

yes people would work it out, what causes poverty to begin with in countries as wealthy as the US is private concentration of wealth

but if you mean just cut the social safety net, that doesn't work at all predictably, because poverty exists independent of the measures taken to address it

Private concentration of wealth... and a multitude of other factors. I'm not saying cut the social safety net, that would be awful. I'm saying it is in the best interest of society to wake the **** up and be more responsible which will go a long way in reducing the problems we have and help to reduce government strain so maybe they can be more effective.

DwnWthVwls · 06-25-2018, 04:35 PM

Why not both? If you can't admit people/society can do a lot better than they currently are if they gave a shit about making better decisions than youre burying your head in the sand.

The Batlord · 06-25-2018, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

government reliance is not something people think they are owed.

Why not? We were brought into this world without our consent by a society that has children simply because it's instinctual, and then we're expected to show loyalty to our species and be productive members of society regardless of our own wants and needs. I'd say that any culture that acts in such a way does in fact owe the people it brings into the world for no other reason than because it wants to make more people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I'm saying it is in the best interest of society to wake the **** up and be more responsible which will go a long way in reducing the problems we have and help to reduce government strain so maybe they can be more effective.

So human psychology needs to change? You think that's reasonable? Our psyches have been developed over millions of years and no amount of bootstrap logic is going to change how the human race functions. Certain individuals might be able to pull themselves up but human history has shown for thousands of years that the natural state of most societies is poverty.