Political Discussions for "Adults"

~~jwb~~ · 08-11-2019, 10:08 PM

Gender is less of a social construct than race. Gender roles are a key part of virtually any human society. That's not cause society creates them arbitrarily. It's cause our evolutionary pattern gives rise to said gender roles as a sort of pragmatic division of labor.

~~jwb~~ · 08-11-2019, 10:12 PM

Yeah I'm not saying they're absolute

But as a general rule its safe to say usually men are the breadwinners and women are the nurturers, in most societies.

And this means that men and women are selected for based on different criteria, via sexual selection.

Which explains the basic difference between the genders.

~~jwb~~ · 08-11-2019, 10:28 PM

I don't even know what a law of human nature means tbh

It's an adaptive feature of human evolution. We are a pair bonding species, and our children take a long time to raise. This means 2 parents was really a big plus in raising human children, especially during our hunter gatherer years (see: 95+% of our time on this planet) when they had to actually go out and hunt **** to live, something pregnant women and women with young kids straggling along don't excel at.

So the division of labor was an obvious evolutionary advantage. It's not like a rule that anyone is going to enforce. It's just a better way to do things, so the selective pressures push things in that general direction.

~~jwb~~ · 08-12-2019, 04:30 AM

Sure but the context we evolved in was as hunter gatherers.

So if gender is basically the personality traits that become associated with men vs women, it's because sexual selection has largely selected for different traits in men vs women. I.E. what women typically looked for in a mate differs from what men looked for.

Even most trans people generally fall into these gender roles, they just try to adopt the roles of the sex they wish they were.

OccultHawk · 08-12-2019, 06:30 AM

Is it even a scientific certainty that the human brain has made any evolutionary jumps since we reached our current anatomically modern condition?

~~jwb~~ · 08-12-2019, 06:53 AM

I would think not, the one hand not enough time has passed. And on the other hand civilization disrupts the patterns of sexual selection.

OccultHawk · 08-12-2019, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

I would think not, the one hand not enough time has passed. And on the other hand civilization disrupts the patterns of sexual selection.

If that’s the case, in an evolutionary sense, discussion about what Homo sapiens got up to in 200,000 years or more before Mesopotamia would be irrelevant. Therefore when I hear people talking about our hunter-gatherer days as if they represent our biological core (and I’m not saying you) when defining things like gender roles and identity I tend to think they’re just making **** up.

~~jwb~~ · 08-12-2019, 07:29 AM

I'm not following you tbh

We were hunter gatherers for the vast majority of our time on this planet. Supposedly ~10,000 years ago we broke from that. Which is the blink of an eye in evolutionary time. That's precisely why the basic structure of hunter gatherer societies tells us so much about our behavior today.

OccultHawk · 08-12-2019, 08:05 AM

When I hear the term hunter gatherer I imagine anatomically modern humans living in such a social structure. I don’t think the term is often used to describe our pre-human ancestors (although it may be an apt descriptor of how they lived). If we’re talking about our pre-human ancestral social structures that needs to be clarified and if we’re talking about homo sapien social structures it’s not relevant from a biological standpoint unless the brain evolved during that time span.

The Batlord · 08-12-2019, 08:40 AM

Ya'll do realize jwb is herding you to this discussion about trans people not being real right? That left turn to gender he took when ya'll were still talking about race was pretty awkward.

08-12-2019, 06:30 AM	#2715 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	Is it even a scientific certainty that the human brain has made any evolutionary jumps since we reached our current anatomically modern condition? __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

08-12-2019, 08:05 AM	#2719 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	When I hear the term hunter gatherer I imagine anatomically modern humans living in such a social structure. I don’t think the term is often used to describe our pre-human ancestors (although it may be an apt descriptor of how they lived). If we’re talking about our pre-human ancestral social structures that needs to be clarified and if we’re talking about homo sapien social structures it’s not relevant from a biological standpoint unless the brain evolved during that time span. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

08-11-2019, 10:08 PM	#2711 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Gender is less of a social construct than race. Gender roles are a key part of virtually any human society. That's not cause society creates them arbitrarily. It's cause our evolutionary pattern gives rise to said gender roles as a sort of pragmatic division of labor.

08-11-2019, 10:12 PM	#2712 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Yeah I'm not saying they're absolute But as a general rule its safe to say usually men are the breadwinners and women are the nurturers, in most societies. And this means that men and women are selected for based on different criteria, via sexual selection. Which explains the basic difference between the genders.

08-11-2019, 10:28 PM	#2713 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I don't even know what a law of human nature means tbh It's an adaptive feature of human evolution. We are a pair bonding species, and our children take a long time to raise. This means 2 parents was really a big plus in raising human children, especially during our hunter gatherer years (see: 95+% of our time on this planet) when they had to actually go out and hunt **** to live, something pregnant women and women with young kids straggling along don't excel at. So the division of labor was an obvious evolutionary advantage. It's not like a rule that anyone is going to enforce. It's just a better way to do things, so the selective pressures push things in that general direction.

08-12-2019, 04:30 AM	#2714 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Sure but the context we evolved in was as hunter gatherers. So if gender is basically the personality traits that become associated with men vs women, it's because sexual selection has largely selected for different traits in men vs women. I.E. what women typically looked for in a mate differs from what men looked for. Even most trans people generally fall into these gender roles, they just try to adopt the roles of the sex they wish they were.

08-12-2019, 06:53 AM	#2716 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I would think not, the one hand not enough time has passed. And on the other hand civilization disrupts the patterns of sexual selection.

08-12-2019, 07:29 AM	#2718 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I'm not following you tbh We were hunter gatherers for the vast majority of our time on this planet. Supposedly ~10,000 years ago we broke from that. Which is the blink of an eye in evolutionary time. That's precisely why the basic structure of hunter gatherer societies tells us so much about our behavior today.