Political Discussions for "Adults"

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

the only thing that adds value such that there is a surplus is the labor of workers

capitalists profit is them pocketing the surplus workers create through extortion

if that's true then why not just buy a bunch of fish, cut it up, and rake in all the profit? Maybe cause the business model is what allows for that profit in the first place and you don't have the means or ability to replicate it, where as they can very easily replace the labor you provide?

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 12:12 PM

That's great. Work for one of them.

I did say they exist. They just aren't competitive with the Walmarts of the world.

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

I don’t care if two entirely hypothetical what ifs in my mind don’t play into each other. I think concerning yourself with inconsistencies and apparent hypocrisies will make you a simplistic linear thinker. I’m a citizen for a non-linear future. I’m a complicated brother.

That's a very convenient way to avoid self doubt it critical thinking.

OccultHawk · 07-31-2019, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Call it what you want. Cooperatives exist within the capitalist framework and they aren't competitive with the corperations if the world. You don't deserve that much money for cutting fish cause it's an easily replaced low skill job.

So you want to take this to the personal level again...

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

the market factor I'm talking about is the dynamic between wotkers and owners

if workers unionize Labor Theory of Value becomes apparent as you remove the power imbalance

I'm not against unions but that only takes you so far. You aren't going to make 10k I'm a night cutting fish because you aren't worth that much. Without the infrastructure the business provides your labor is essentially rendered worthless.

Otherwise why not just start you own business and rake in all the profits like I said.

OccultHawk · 07-31-2019, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

That's a very convenient way to avoid self doubt it critical thinking.

Is this where we’re going?

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

So you want to take this to the personal level again...

it applies to anyone doing the same job. You are basically worth whatever your competitor is willing to work for.

That is the logic behind unions and collective bargaining. But in this day and age, for low skilled jobs, that only gets you so far. They will always find either non Union replacements or just automate.

OccultHawk · 07-31-2019, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

I'm not against unions but that only takes you so far. You aren't going to make 10k I'm a night cutting fish because you aren't worth that much. Without the infrastructure the business provides your labor is essentially rendered worthless.

Otherwise why not just start you own business and rake in all the profits like I said.

Quote:

$500 a day

Please read or don’t respond

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

if we allowed the markets to actually decide what worlers "deserve"

many workers would make less than 7.25 an hour here in Texas

because it's nothing to do with the value of the work, it's that capitalist can abuse their position of power

I don't disagree with minimum wage.

But once again that only gets you so far
The business will take the Lions share of the profits because they contribute more to those profits than you do merely by the infrastructure they provide.

It's easy to think the profit the local McDonald's takes in comes down to their fry cooks and cashier's when it really has more to do with their business model, advertising campaigns, location, etc.

OccultHawk · 07-31-2019, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

if we allowed the markets to actually decide what worlers "deserve"

many workers would make less than 7.25 an hour here in Texas

because it's nothing to do with the value of the work, it's that capitalist can abuse their position of power

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/07/18/us/....google.com%2F

Nearly 100 bodies found at a Texas construction site were probably black people forced into labor -- after slavery ended

07-31-2019, 12:12 PM	#2142 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	That's great. Work for one of them. I did say they exist. They just aren't competitive with the Walmarts of the world.