Political Discussions for "Adults"

~~jwb~~ · 04-05-2021, 11:51 AM

The inevitability of progress huh.... How cute

Anteater · 04-05-2021, 01:41 PM

Pretty safe assumption tbh.

Lucem Ferre · 04-05-2021, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

The technocratic cheerleading might qualify him per Postman

Exactly where I was going with it.

Karl Marx believed that we needed capitalism's innovation in industrialization to create the abundance that we didn't have before. Ant believes that innovating isn't finished yet. The only difference being that Ant believes (correct me if I'm wrong) we will naturally fall into a socialist society when work becomes obsolete while Marx believed that we can't truly have a viable socialist revolution with out the working class taking the means of production.

Anteater · 04-05-2021, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Exactly where I was going with it.

The only difference being that Ant believes (correct me if I'm wrong) we will naturally fall into a socialist society when work becomes obsolete while Marx believed that we can't truly have a viable socialist revolution with out the working class taking the means of production.

That actually sums up my views pretty well. A revolution without the technological capacity to end scarcity after the guillotine gets cleaned off isn't going to help anyone. It's all about timing.

~~jwb~~ · 04-05-2021, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

Pretty safe assumption tbh.

tell that to medieval europe after the fall of the roman empire.

Lucem Ferre · 04-05-2021, 03:23 PM

I don't think it's coming naturally. I think we're going to have to start pushing our culture towards socialism asap. We should be a mixed economy by now IMO.

Anteater · 04-05-2021, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

tell that to medieval europe after the fall of the roman empire.

I can't tell them that without time travel yo.

~~jwb~~ · 04-05-2021, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

I can't tell them that without time travel yo.

don't worry.. I'm sure the inevitability of progress will sort that out for you
.

~~jwb~~ · 04-05-2021, 06:19 PM

I think marx actually believed that the conditions of capitalism would inevitably lead to the class consciousness which would result in the proles seizing the means of production.... Isn't that his whole spiel on the hegelian dialectic and history... Tbh I never could force myself to learn enough about philosophy to understand Hegel.

Anteater · 04-05-2021, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

he's the most dishonest person on the subject I've ever had the displeasure of posting on the same board with

Sour grapes much?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

I think marx actually believed that the conditions of capitalism would inevitably lead to the class consciousness which would result in the proles seizing the means of production.... Isn't that his whole spiel on the hegelian dialectic and history... Tbh I never could force myself to learn enough about philosophy to understand Hegel.

There will never be a true class conscious "awakening" because the vast majority of people can't imagine a future that isn't capitalist. The whole "end of history" spiel. Hegel touches upon it and Fisher does pretty well with the subject too.

04-05-2021, 11:51 AM	#9221 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	The inevitability of progress huh.... How cute

04-05-2021, 06:19 PM	#9229 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I think marx actually believed that the conditions of capitalism would inevitably lead to the class consciousness which would result in the proles seizing the means of production.... Isn't that his whole spiel on the hegelian dialectic and history... Tbh I never could force myself to learn enough about philosophy to understand Hegel.