TheBig3

Let's assume that's true (I don't know if it is or not), but if it was the neoliberal consensus it would be odd since most of the enemies of the United States were made allies through commerce.

The only way I can logically agree with it being a neoliberal consensus is if sanctions are a grand plot to keep perpetual war going. But if that's true, then Trump is no better, because the JCPOA was a multi-lateral agreement that would have opened up a middle class in Iran with a vested interest in international peace. Trump squashed that.

Anteater

Eh, nobody comes to MB for a hot take. They come for the pissing contests.

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Lucem Ferre

Ha ha ha ha ha.

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jwb

When I said neoliberal consensus I'm just referring to status quo Democrats and how they have dealt with the situation. And how Biden says he wants to deal with it.

The point of our stance with regard to NK basically derives from cold war logic. We think that by isolating and sanctioning the regime, we can undermine their nuclear ambitions. This hasn't worked and cannot work so long as China props them up.

The only way NK would be weakened enough to even consider abandoning their nuclear program is if China got on board and was willing to weaken them to the point of being on the brink of collapse. China will never do this because as much as they don't like the DPRK regime, they don't like the idea of American presence or an American ally on their border even more.

So the question is what is wrong with opening up an actual line of diplomacy. The status quo Dems say it weakens our hand because Trump "legitimatized" Kim without getting any significant concessions. Guess what? The sanctions haven't gotten those concessions either. They just ramp up the antagonism.

I don't like Trump's foreign policy in general and I'm frustrated that he squashed the Iran deal. I'm similarly frustrated that whatever meager progress he's attained in NK in terms of normalizing our relationship there will similarly be tossed out the window once he's out of power.

The Dems seem to like diplomacy with Iran but not NK. The Trump fans seem to like it with NK but not Iran. I'm saying diplomacy is necessary with both. I think that's a consistent stance.

WWWP

Did you know this is in my neck of the woods? It's where all the kids go for summer jobs. Pre-covid we had this big outdoor concert on the river every year that Grove guests got VIP access to - they'd roll in on these shuttles with a couple dozen hot af girls and just party. The Grove girls are fun. They got me drunk when I was underage and I think offered to human traffick me? My mom drove a shuttle for the Grove last summer, ran into a bunch of celebs. Conan being the most surprising! It was in her contract that she cannot make eye contact with any of the guests or speak to anyone unless spoken to. There was a strict dress code too, girls couldn't wear pants.

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jwb

I knew it was in the bay area somewhere. Not surprising tbh.

That guy in the first Alex Jones video is creepy as ****. "That was not a gentlemanly thing you did, sir." real Eyes Wide Shut vibes.

Lucem Ferre

Boujee as ****.

Those aren't just any pedophiles. Those are top tier elite pedophiles and that gives you more value for being seeked by them.

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jwb

Honestly I think QAnon and Pizzagate types aren't nearly as wrong as many in the liberal circles assume.

They are wrong in the specifics and they turn it into an over the top movie like plot, but in the general sense that the elite engage in ritualistic decadence, sex trafficking and pedophilia they're basically right.

A big part of why organizations like this are so big in elite circles is because it's a form of getting leverage/dirt on one another. Once you join a secret society that engages in this kinda ****, they own you and can ruin you at any time. And you own the other members in the same way.

Like it might be a conspiracy theory that the Clinton's had Epstein whacked. It's not a conspiracy theory that Epstein had a painting of Clinton in a dress and that Clinton was a frequent guest on the island. The main error QAnon makes is in thinking Trump isn't part of the same crowd with just as much dirt on him.

Lucem Ferre

It's like I told my friend. Do I believe there is a secret pedophile ring that involves the wealthy elite? Sure. Do I think it's run out of the basement of a pizza place? No.

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TheBig3

Jesus Christ. Burn it to the ground.

What makes you think it's going to be squashed? As I say (and I know you disagree) Clinton had a pretty open policy. The Obama Administration had (IMO) pretty basic requests for the Taliban to come to the table with the Afghan government and they refused.

I don't know that the Democrats are as hostile to diplomacy as they're being made out to be. If anything I think in a post-Trump world they'll be given more latitude.