TheBig3

This is what happens when America leaves the world stage. But in the long term, this is a good thing. Once people have to deal with their own leadership doing stupid things without someone to blame it on, that's when they're willing to die in the streets for basic freedoms.

I remember Hitchens saying that while he was in Iran, the intellectual class kept saying "Why won't the American's invade" and he was happy about the sentiment at first, but he then realized that if they won't have a revolution themselves, then it's just people wanting the hard work done for them. If you're not willing to kill, they'll just take everything from you.

Economics can solve 90% of the problems we use the military for. And should.

OccultHawk

Is that your way of endorsing sanctions or better trade relations or what?

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TheBig3

No, I think sanctions are abuse. Telling other countries who they can and can't trade with is American Obnoxiousness, and it rarely works outside of the Western world (Iran, Cuba, N. Korea, but did work with S. Africa)

America needs to shower money on nations in regions that adopt human right's into law. Send a message that we're willing to play ball where there's some rational rule of law.

You don't "fix" Venzeula by punishing those people. You do it by making Colombia look much more appealing. And specifically in the case of Colombia, subsidize their renewables industry.

debaserr

To be fair, politicians love saying they do though.

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The Batlord

Isn't the whole point of foreign aid the strings attached that benefit capitalism at the expense of those foreign countries but the leaders of those countries get to buy BMWs and not have a right wing rebellion financed by us?

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OccultHawk

I too am totally sick of his deification.

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debaserr

The guy who zagged and supported the Iraq War. ****ing lol

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jwb

I agree. That's why I disagree with liberals who criticize Trump's policy towards North Korea and seem to favor the traditional approach we've seen over the last few decades. Biden seems to be of that mindset.

I honestly think for all the talk of the dangers of supposedly legitimizing NK, Trump's basic tactic of trying to be friendly is more promising than what the establishment has been pursuing over the last few decades.

jwb

Yeah. Which is the same thing Biden wants to do tbh.

OccultHawk

I think it’s incredibly stupid to keep betting on other people’s sense of self-preservation as a cornerstone of foreign policy. Sure we can destroy other countries but if there’s anything Americans should be able to understand is that there are plenty of people willing to be destroyed just for the chance to pop off. Covid may have distracted the really theatrical mass shooters but parties and whatever are still ending in gunfire weekly if not daily. The idea that heads of state and military leaders with sufficient autonomy won’t go ham and turn NY and DC into Hiroshimas shows a profound misunderstanding of human nature. Lots of mother****ers are ready to die.

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