Political Discussions for "Adults"

TheBig3 · 03-22-2021, 07:07 PM

He literally cited equality of outcomes in the rant...

debaserr · 03-22-2021, 07:41 PM

He hasn't exactly been the best and brightest of commentators. Why are you so disappointed?

Anteater · 03-23-2021, 12:03 AM

I follow a lot of people on YouTube (like Thought Slime) who lean pretty far left and they're definitely advocates of equality of outcome as opposed to what libertarians or the "classical liberals" would refer to as equality of opportunity. I say this because they favor massive redistribution of resources but not in a nuanced manner, but more in a way that would lead to something like a command economy on steroids.

~~jwb~~ · 03-23-2021, 12:08 AM

equality of outcome and equality of opportunity are the same thing

if you don't have the same starting point and circumstances you don't have equality of opportunity

and the only way to have the same starting point and circumstances is equality of outcome.

Psy-Fi · 03-23-2021, 05:51 AM

Spoiler for White Liberal Trigger Warning:

**Frownland** · 03-23-2021, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debaserr

He hasn't exactly been the best and brightest of commentators. Why are you so disappointed?

He's said he was a fan before, not realizing how big of a self-diss that was.

~~jwb~~ · 03-23-2021, 10:46 AM

Maher is a better political commentator than he is comedian, but I've found him stale and boring for some time. I think politically incorrect had better discussions than his current show. There are still decent discussions on there sometimes when he brings the right people on but a lot of the time it's a bunch of smarmy elitists patting eachother on the back. And his monologues/new rule bits have always been stale self congratulatory sermons disguised as comedy.

But he's really not much worse than the million and 1 late night John stewart rip offs out there. There was a time when it was basically just him and stewart doing this politics/news oriented late night comedy. So at least he's not just another copy cat.

All of the current late night guys are trash with the exception of John oliver. That's only cause John oliver it's actually funny. The rest of those dudes just preach... They don't have an ounce of wit left in their body. Colbert is the worst. He used to be funny too. Now just pure smarmy and weak comedy.

Anteater · 03-23-2021, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

equality of outcome and equality of opportunity are the same thing

if you don't have the same starting point and circumstances you don't have equality of opportunity

and the only way to have the same starting point and circumstances is equality of outcome.

You can start off in completely different positions and still have the same opportunity to apply for a job or do whatever. You can reduce the disparity between the haves and have-nots, but not to the extent that people more passionate about the subject than I would consider to be acceptable. I still haven't seen a model, even a theoretical one, that completely eliminates most forms of disparity.

On the other hand, equality of outcome is a mode of thought that assumes that specific outcomes can be controlled / legislated all the way down to the individual level in an extremely precise manner, which is impossible to achieve outside of totalitarian levels of meddling in people's lives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

All of the current late night guys are trash with the exception of John oliver. That's only cause John oliver it's actually funny. The rest of those dudes just preach... They don't have an ounce of wit left in their body. Colbert is the worst. He used to be funny too. Now just pure smarmy and weak comedy.

John Oliver is so funny sometimes that I don't even mind it if I think he's wrong about something. That's a real talent.

~~jwb~~ · 03-23-2021, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

You can start off in completely different positions and still have the same opportunity to apply for a job or do whatever. You can reduce the disparity between the have's and have-nots, but not to the extent that people more passionate about the subject than I would consider to be acceptable. I still haven't seen a model, even a theoretical one, that completely eliminates most forms of disparity.

On the other hand, equality of outcome is a mode of thought that assumes that specific outcomes can be controlled / legislated all the way down to the individual level in an extremely precise manner, which is impossible to achieve outside of totalitarian levels of meddling in people's lives.

John Oliver is so funny sometimes that I don't even mind it if I think he's wrong about something. That's a real talent.

Having an opportunity goes beyond being able to fill out an application.

Me and bill gates might have the same opportunity to apply for a loan. We both know damn well that we don't have the same opportunity to get the loan.

**Marie Monday** · 03-23-2021, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

equality of outcome and equality of opportunity are the same thing

if you don't have the same starting point and circumstances you don't have equality of opportunity

and the only way to have the same starting point and circumstances is equality of outcome.

Church. I suspect that what conservatives call 'equality of outcome' is just a more proactive way of trying to achieve equal opportunity. Pointing out that complete equality of outcome in impossible is just a lazy way of trying to get out from under that.

03-22-2021, 07:07 PM	#8591 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,246	He literally cited equality of outcomes in the rant... __________________ I've moved to a new address

03-22-2021, 07:41 PM	#8592 (permalink)
debaserr eat the masters Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5,470	He hasn't exactly been the best and brightest of commentators. Why are you so disappointed? __________________ Last.FM

03-23-2021, 12:08 AM	#8594 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	equality of outcome and equality of opportunity are the same thing if you don't have the same starting point and circumstances you don't have equality of opportunity and the only way to have the same starting point and circumstances is equality of outcome.

03-23-2021, 10:46 AM	#8597 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Maher is a better political commentator than he is comedian, but I've found him stale and boring for some time. I think politically incorrect had better discussions than his current show. There are still decent discussions on there sometimes when he brings the right people on but a lot of the time it's a bunch of smarmy elitists patting eachother on the back. And his monologues/new rule bits have always been stale self congratulatory sermons disguised as comedy. But he's really not much worse than the million and 1 late night John stewart rip offs out there. There was a time when it was basically just him and stewart doing this politics/news oriented late night comedy. So at least he's not just another copy cat. All of the current late night guys are trash with the exception of John oliver. That's only cause John oliver it's actually funny. The rest of those dudes just preach... They don't have an ounce of wit left in their body. Colbert is the worst. He used to be funny too. Now just pure smarmy and weak comedy.