Political Discussions for "Adults"

**Frownland** · 08-22-2020, 05:08 PM

Voting is so separated from policy when everything gets compromised to dysfunction in the name of centrism though.

OccultHawk · 08-22-2020, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Church. That was some powerful self-delusion. And he was so likable that you just couldn't help but want to convince him to discard that nonsense but smug enough that you didn't feel bad about being mean about it.

To me, the most incredible thing was that he didn’t understand how the blues informed the music of Led Zeppelin. I never got past that.

**Frownland** · 08-22-2020, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

why not do both

why not do the thing that actually works twice

The Batlord · 08-22-2020, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

To me, the most incredible thing was that he didn’t understand how the blues informed the music of Led Zeppelin. I never got past that.

wate wut

TheBig3 · 08-22-2020, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Yeah because people like you fall in line every time so they have a history of success behind them to give people confidence that they can get whatever it is they do done.

Meanwhile, your path to victory is...what? Not voting? Ranting on a forum literally tens of people visit?

I've never considered me voting for the winner to mean that I "won" anything. My record isn't super:

2004 - Kerry
2008 - Obama
2012 - Obama
2016 - Clinton

I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but voting in the Presidential election is kind of useless in terms of "achieving" things. For one thing, I'm in a die-hard blue state in which Biden beat our sitting Senior Senator.

But the big portion is the mid-terms. Who you send to the Senate and the House matters more, because it signals to the parties what the mood in the country is, and 2018 was won by the DSA crowd.

My vote for Biden in November isn't as important as my vote for Markey in September.

**Frownland** · 08-22-2020, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

voting takes like 15-30 minutes

it could take 3hrs and you'd still have time to do some direct action THAT SAME DAY

If you spend your day promoting voting and don't do anything to promote direct action, it gives the impression that you're more invested in the former than doing anything but vaguely lip servicing the latter.

~~jwb~~ · 08-22-2020, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

there is a long history of reform vs. revolution debate

I don't think it has much to do with this discussion unless you're taking an accelerationist position and thus admitting Trump's reelection will make people's lives considerably worse

Richard Wolfe argues that it's through watching the bourgeois walk back reforms time and time again, that the left becomes prepared for revolution, the struggle for reform builds the infrastructure necessary for revolution according to people who take that position

That's the position I was taking/talking about, yes. I've said before the accelerationist approach is the only one where reelecting Trump makes any sense. I'm not saying that's what I believe but that was what I was referring to.

Richard Wolff can say what he likes and he's a talented propagandist but so far that's not the lesson history teaches.

Marx was writing excitedly about revolution on the backs of the industrial prole masses in 1848 as an impending future. We're now in 2020 and not only are we sufficiently industrialized... We're several decades into post industrialization when Marx's portrait of commerce becomes more antiquated by the hour.

TheBig3 · 08-22-2020, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

If you spend your day promoting voting and don't do anything to promote direct action, it gives the impression that you're more invested in the former than doing anything but vaguely lip servicing the latter.

Yeah, Elph. You need to phrase it in such a way that Frownland approves or you're a fascist.

OccultHawk · 08-22-2020, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

wate wut

https://www.musicbanter.com/introduc...r-georgia.html

**Frownland** · 08-22-2020, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Yeah, Elph. You need to phrase it in such a way that Frownland approves or you're a fascist.

Nah I don't think he's a fascist, he's being dishonest with us and/or himself. Plus if you look at my post, it's more about comparing action to barking than any phrasing flaws.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

even if it were true it'd not be a refutation of my point

The length of time that it takes to vote, cool guys saying you should vote, how easy it is to vote and do something that actually makes a difference in the same day are not relevant to the efficacy of voting or the morality of playing a role in perpetuating evil either.

08-22-2020, 05:08 PM	#7261 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Voting is so separated from policy when everything gets compromised to dysfunction in the name of centrism though. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

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