Political Discussions for "Adults"

**Frownland** · 07-13-2017, 03:48 PM

He was a brilliant orator for sure.

Trollheart · 07-13-2017, 04:00 PM

I'm just listening, basically, and taking it all in. So don't mind me.

OccultHawk · 07-13-2017, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds

Admittedly, I'm not all that well-versed on JFK, but I love him for this speech alone.

But since this thread is for adults only, I'll see myself out.

Tricky Dick was in office when we got there. Bombing the **** out of subsistence farmers in Indochina and talking about peace

And wtf is up with not building anything or putting a human presence on the moon? No follow up.

Zhanteimi · 07-13-2017, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

@Mord - That seems absurd. You can't reasonably prove ambition, and even if you could that's some pretty serious discrimination. Do you really believe that or are you just blowing off steam?

I really believe that. Revolutionary ideas often sound absurd.

I believe the best political system would be a representative democracy in which the politicians are average joes who, when their term is up, return to their old, private lives.

DwnWthVwls · 07-13-2017, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mord

I really believe that. Revolutionary ideas often sound absurd.

I believe the best political system would be a representative democracy in which the politicians are average joes who, when their term is up, return to their old, private lives.

I support the idea in theory but in reality, people are generally ****ing clueless about politics, economics, foreign policy, and war.. We would require an incredible educational leap to even scratch the surface of considering such an idea. The average person, myself included, does not have the understanding of how free healthcare will impact the economy in the long and short term, and although economists get it wrong they at least have the skill set to assess why they were incorrect and move forward (it's impossible to always be certain). A majority of society just puppets the narrative that is shoved down their throat from whatever news sources they align with and flaunt their pseudo-understanding of how America functions.

Let's be honest the broadness of informed decisions we expect our politicians to make are beyond the expectations of even the most intelligent people. You really need to be thoroughly educated on such a wide variety of topics it's absurd. I've always been fond of the idea of a collective of POTUS status officials each specialized in a field that collectively make decisions.. I haven't thought much about how it would function but it seems likely to result in much better decision making assuming it's not corrupt.

They can each of course have a variety of advisors below them.. but a round table of sorts consisting of a few scientists, economist, diplomat, some sort of high end general, etc. Also, they can't be religious because anyone who believes in god without evidence is not capable in making evidence based decisions in at least one aspect of their life, and I'd rather not leave it up to them to decide when it is and isn't appropriate to use faith based decision making.

Zhanteimi · 07-13-2017, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I support the idea in theory but in reality, people are generally ****ing clueless about politics, economics, foreign policy, and war.

You're right. So I would start with education and making sure every citizen is educated, informed, and conversant on topics important to their nation. Kind of like a civics course that starts in elementary school and proceeds through high school. Like, say, start with some kind of basics civics class in third grade, and every year have a civics class be mandatory. Each year the class becomes more advanced. Along the way, the students not only learn government but are also kept apprised of current political, economic, and social issues.

This may seem like a lot, but as a father of many children who have excelled in school, I know what young people's minds are capable of if you challenge them.

We could, if we really wanted to, produce a well-informed and -educated citizenry, so that even Farmer John or Plumber Ralph, when called upon by their country to serve their term, could do so competently.

The problem is, as Batlord pointed out, the patrician class would never allow such a thing to ever come about. Hell, they control education in such a way that the average joe cannot even conceive of this.

OccultHawk · 07-13-2017, 06:09 PM

Quote:

We could, if we really wanted to, produce a well-informed and -educated citizenry, so that even Farmer John or Plumber Ralph, when called upon by their country to serve their term, could do so competently.

Farming takes a huge amount of education and time. Many occupations demand intense specialization. Time spent learning civics is time lost learning whatever else. Your kids might be obedient and smart and committed to a certain type of liberal education but that's not only a byproduct of your careful nurturing but there's also a good chunk of genetic predisposition that goes into it. Nothing is right for everyone.

On the other hand, it still could very easily be better than the hell we're living in.

Zhanteimi · 07-13-2017, 06:12 PM

Well, as Bat said in his original reply to me, something's gotta change.

DwnWthVwls · 07-13-2017, 06:15 PM

Well since this thread kind of took off (even though it was meant to be a joke after the Trump thread got locked, AGAIN). I ask you all moving forward to not encourage ****ty behavior and insults, and try to discuss things in a civil, intellectual, objective, and logical manor. If that's too hard for you than see your way out and expect to be reported.

As Grindy suggested, let's just ignore the bad posts for once and not feed the trolls. I'd like to have just ONE thread that actually has quality debates and conversations. Anything political, religious, and philosophical is welcome, let's keep it broad, and see where this goes.

Thanks.

Zhanteimi · 07-13-2017, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Anything political, religious, and philosophical is welcome, let's keep it broad, and see where this goes.

In that case, perhaps you should edit (or get edited) the title of this thread to simply "Discussions for Adults".

07-13-2017, 03:48 PM	#61 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	He was a brilliant orator for sure. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

07-13-2017, 04:00 PM	#62 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	I'm just listening, basically, and taking it all in. So don't mind me. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

07-13-2017, 06:12 PM	#68 (permalink)
Zhanteimi Mord Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Tokyo Posts: 4,873	Well, as Bat said in his original reply to me, something's gotta change. __________________ Zhanteimi LetsTalkMusic