Political Discussions for "Adults"

Anteater · 05-31-2020, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

There’s never been a time more ripe for a third party socialist. Not Sanders either. He needs to drop Biden and endorse someone young and radical that doesn’t own two mansions, one in one of the most coveted locations in Vermont.

So basically Randall Flagg from The Stand minus the cool supernatural powers?

~~jwb~~ · 05-31-2020, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

There’s never been a time more ripe for a third party socialist. Not Sanders either. He needs to drop Biden and endorse someone young and radical that doesn’t own two mansions, one in one of the most coveted locations in Vermont.

It would sink Biden and Trump would win but I sorta agree.

The fact is that it's probably going to take several failed attempts to build up the sort of momentum necessary for either a viable third party option or just a more populist Democratic option like Sanders on a national scale.

So the lesser of two evils calculus that the status quo uses to shame third parties and other options basically ensures they will never get off the ground if they submit to that pressure.

In fact the time is as ripe as it is right now both because of the success of Trump and the momentum Sanders built up in 2016.

OccultHawk · 05-31-2020, 09:06 AM

Unusual **** happens during unusual times

TheBig3 · 05-31-2020, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

it was the same argument before with Romney, Bush, etc.

It's not that I don't see a difference between the parties, it's that the Dems take it for granted that these boogeyman tactics will force your hand to vote for them even when they consistently offer up mediocre candidates.

This is by design. They did everything in their power to make the argument that only Biden could beat Trump when Sanders was still in the running, and I see voting for him on that basis as validating that narrative.

To me it's blatantly obvious that the current conversation in the Democratic party is further to the left/more populist than it would have been if Hillary won.

The intentions of the Democrats, real or fabricated, also don't matter in my mind. What matters is the movement of the policy positions.

As for whether or not Clinton would have made the Dems more conservative, I can see that happening in Foreign Policy, but not domestic policy. I'm curious as to what you think she would have been more conservative on in the U.S.I'm just going to say up front that I don't think Clinton (Hillary I mean) deserves nearly as much hatred as she got. She was considered a commie radical in 1993 and suddenly she's Richard Nixon. This country has schizophrenia.

Bush and Romney are different things, so I'll make it clear how I see them:

1. Romney was my Governor and I didn't mind him. I thought he was pretty solid, introducing our own version of the ACA here in Massachusetts before running for the Presidency. If Romney had won, it's possible he could have been a good President, but three things made me vote for Obama in 2012:
A. It was a referendum vote on Obama, and I liked him.
B. It was a "repeal the ACA vote" so I voted for the ACA
C. Romney constantly referred to immigrants as "Illegals" and I hated that so I voted against him.

Barring those, I still would have worried if the Trump tax cuts were in play with Romney which I'm very much against. Hard to say if A-C wasn't on the table if I'd have considered Romney. If I'm being honest, I probably wouldn't have. I liked Obama a lot.

2. With Bush, I'm just going to say people forget things too quickly. If anything, everyone was saying there was zero difference between Bush and Gore, and in hindsight, I hope people realize how ****ing stupid they were. I wasn't old enough to vote in 2000 by about 3 weeks. Having said that, I would have voted for Ralph Nader if I were. Thankfully the voting age saved me from my embarrassment.

But Bush v. Gore is a telling election for both 2016 and 2020. During the election, they were the same. Bush won and started an endless war. Gore went on to make Climate Change a part of the mainstream conversation. I'm sorry if you're offended by people who don't see them as "the same" are history agnostic.

The Batlord · 05-31-2020, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

It would sink Biden and Trump would win but I sorta agree.

The fact is that it's probably going to take several failed attempts to build up the sort of momentum necessary for either a viable third party option or just a more populist Democratic option like Sanders on a national scale.

So the lesser of two evils calculus that the status quo uses to shame third parties and other options basically ensures they will never get off the ground if they submit to that pressure.

In fact the time is as ripe as it is right now both because of the success of Trump and the momentum Sanders built up in 2016.

Yeah Sanders should never have endorsed Biden either. It's not like playing ball is going to make him any less persona non grata with the Democratic elites anyway. Endorsing Biden just makes his platform look weak. He should have never quit and went down in the end with both middle fingers held high.

Mindy · 05-31-2020, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Yeah Sanders should never have endorsed Biden either. It's not like playing ball is going to make him any less persona non grata with the Democratic elites anyway. Endorsing Biden just makes his platform look weak. He should have never quit and went down in the end with both middle fingers held high.

I agree

TheBig3 · 05-31-2020, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

He should have never quit and went down in the end with both middle fingers held high.

Your opinion is your opinion, but this is only ever going to be fanfiction because that would mean Sanders has far less clout come the convention. And Sanders is a very savvy politician.

**Frownland** · 05-31-2020, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

they were the same

Quote:

people who don't see them as "the same"

You should argue against points that people are actually making.

Raime · 05-31-2020, 03:15 PM

It seems like things are getting worse day by day. Just saw a couple of articles where journalists and press are being shot in the head with rubber bullets and "less than lethal" ammo now.

Reminds me of the Iraqi protests where the government was using gas grenades to shoot people with. Seeing a gas grenade puff smoke out of a dead man's head is one of the more gruesome things I've seen in the past couple of years. I'm trying to keep a level head, but I really want to see some of these *******s beaten to death on the street by an angry mob Gaddafi style.

I just wonder if and when live ammo will be used on protestors, but I wouldn't be surprised if it gets to that point in a week if things continue to escalate.

**Exo** · 05-31-2020, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raime

It seems like things are getting worse day by day. Just saw a couple of articles where journalists and press are being shot in the head with rubber bullets and "less than lethal" ammo now.

Reminds me of the Iraqi protests where the government was using gas grenades to shoot people with. Seeing a gas grenade puff smoke out of a dead man's head is one of the more gruesome things I've seen in the past couple of years. I'm trying to keep a level head, but I really want to see some of these *******s beaten to death on the street by an angry mob Gaddafi style.

I just wonder if and when live ammo will be used on protestors, but I wouldn't be surprised if it gets to that point in a week if things continue to escalate.

"Man, they might start killing us out there! That's wrong! LET'S KILL THEM."

05-31-2020, 09:06 AM	#6273 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	Unusual **** happens during unusual times __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html