Political Discussions for "Adults"

~~jwb~~ · 06-03-2020, 12:40 PM

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Originally Posted by TheBig3

No worries. I try to give it a few days myself so the 8 people that post here can generate something to respond to. What policies would you like to see that they don't hold over than a $15 minimum wage (which you mention below)?

single payer and tuition free college were the two big ones from the Sanders campaign.

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I see your point, but I don't fully accept the premise. Bernie demonstrated that he only got about 35% of primary voters IIRC and that his people don't show up.

Biden asking Bernie supporters to vote for him doesn't strike me as a double-standard. I'll just leave it here for now to save you a rant. I guess I'm asking what I'm missing.

I don't see how the first part is relevant since I was talking about the assumption that Bernie might not win over moderates in the general and thus can't beat Trump, not how well he actually did in the primaries.

It's certainly possibly true that Bernie might not have won those voters over. The double standard is in the way many people rhetorically framed it as traitorous the left to not support Biden (in the general) yet that only seems to work one way.

When moderates don't feel comfortable voting for someone like Bernie that's an indication that he's too alienating. When more hard-line types are not willing to get behind Biden then it's suddenly the voters who are being unreasonable.

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In 1993 she was charged by her husband to oversee Healthcare reform to get (as I recall) something like Single-Payer. It's why my mother has wanted to vote for Clinton since 1993. Sadly she died in 2015 and I had to carry the torch for her. Not really a point to this little side note other than to say Clinton means slightly more to me than she might otherwise.

If she was advocating for single payer in the 90's then she has since changed her mind, because she campaigned on a more moderate healthcare policy in 2016.

If it weren't for Sanders I don't believe there would've even been any serious discussion of adopting single payer in 2020, and if Hillary was the incumbent that would almost certainly not happen. That's what I meant by the way the conversation has shifted.

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I don't know how he'd manage to do more harm than trump who used mounted police yesterday to clear protestors so he could get an Instagram post with a bible, but what's the drive for a $15 min wage? Of all the policies I feel like that's a lop-sided one. It's going to be way too little in NYC and job-cutting in some of the right-to-work state. I thought it was wise to campaign on it and then in office take the deal to get some reform. But if they put in a $15 flat minimum I think that's going to have more damaging effects than positive ones.

I assumed it was a matter of changing the federal minimum wage, which is currently 7.25. I live in a state where that is also the state minimum wage, but other states like NY have a higher state minimum wage so you can't pay people 7.25 there. The same would hold true if it were 15 instead. The state can set a higher minimum wage based on their specific cost of living requirements if 15 isn't sufficient, but every state would have to pay at least 15.

~~jwb~~ · 06-03-2020, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I don't feel like protest voting (or not voting) has ever or will ever accomplish anything

Hillary lost and we didn't get Bernie

This is just reiterating the same calculus we're all familiar with, but I think it's a mistake to regard it a waste to make a riskier vote just because you didn't win the election.

Like I said, it's very unlikely for a party to change fundamentally over night or for any non status quo option to emerge as victorious over a single election.

It's much more likely it will take years or even decades of failed attempts and shifts in the mainstream conversation. I would say the conversation actually changed more radically due to Sanders failed attempts than it did under 8 years of Obama.

Of course, there's more to it than just "the conversation," holding power has real implications in terms of court picks etc, but I don't think it's nearly so cut and dry is all.

rostasi · 06-03-2020, 01:30 PM

3 more cops charged in George Floyd death, other officer’s murder charge upgraded

The Batlord · 06-03-2020, 01:42 PM

For anyone complaining how riots don't accomplish anything and are just destructive I'm dubious that peaceful protests would have seen these pigs arrested.

Raime · 06-03-2020, 01:52 PM

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Originally Posted by The Batlord

For anyone complaining how riots don't accomplish anything and are just destructive I'm dubious that peaceful protests would have seen these pigs arrested.

Without people recording video and taking pictures they would have gotten off scot free. Hopefully there will be justice now, but like Freddie Gray in my city, I have my doubts the convictions will stick because the justice system seems to favor cops who commit actual murder. If they aren't convicted, the protests and rioting will only intensify.

The Batlord · 06-03-2020, 02:05 PM

I definitely agree with you but you never know. Maybe the justice system will railroad them just to calm people down.

Anteater · 06-03-2020, 02:12 PM

Some cops send people to jail...others end up under it. Karmaaaa.

The Batlord · 06-03-2020, 02:15 PM

Under jail? Like in the basement?

Raime · 06-03-2020, 02:19 PM

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Originally Posted by The Batlord

Under jail? Like in the basement?

Undertale? I love that game.

rostasi · 06-03-2020, 02:26 PM

Got interested in the boundary lines they were setting up in DC,
so I went to Google to mentally line up the streets and Google
already did the work for me. It could still change (get larger).

Spoiler for Larger version here:

06-03-2020, 01:30 PM	#5823 (permalink)
rostasi . Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 4,009	3 more cops charged in George Floyd death, other officer’s murder charge upgraded

06-03-2020, 02:26 PM	#5830 (permalink)
rostasi . Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 4,009	Got interested in the boundary lines they were setting up in DC, so I went to Google to mentally line up the streets and Google already did the work for me. It could still change (get larger). Spoiler for Larger version here: