Political Discussions for "Adults"

TheBig3 · 02-06-2020, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

When I hear people saying this whole impeachment was pointless because our political system is too corrupt to kick out a member of their own party as if it's a reason not to hold an impeachment rather than a reason to shoot all of them in the head and hang their bodies from street lights as a warning to the people we elect to replace them I wonder just once more how stupid the human race really is.

These are traditionally people who think that facts=truths and that politics is beneath them. The verdict in the impeachment is almost irrelevant and I think Pelosi played this perfectly.

She waited until enough people got the gist, then pulled the trigger. We held this singular issue - the one people understood Trump was wrong on - in the news for longer than anything else has been in the news. Which means it's now held in the minds of the voter. She also knew that he, Trump, would do nothing to help his case in the remaining months between now and the election.

Furthermore, Bolton not testifying. And Romney making the Republican case against acquittal, only worsened the outcome. The Senate is in play, and if Doug Jones loses, I think this whole exchange will also boot Susan Collins and Corey Gardner.

Not to mention that Trump is a candidate (as we saw in 2018) who animates his opposition. And since he's directly involved in this race, it's going to be a disaster. Worse still is that if Biden or Warren aren't on the ticket, the ammunition the GOP has built up against them is gone. I'm a likely Bernie supporter, but if Mayor Pete gets the nomination, it's going to look like a race between an articulate veteran vs. a dying stroke victim.

The impeachment is a slow moving disater for the Trump Administration.

Mindy · 02-06-2020, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

nothing

declare victory, Trump impeached

he'd forever have impeachment on his record with no recourse

Mindy · 02-06-2020, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindfulness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV9EomU-cCI

~~jwb~~ · 02-06-2020, 01:43 PM

Google has the Iowa caucus results at 96% districts reporting with mayor Pete and Bernie virtually tied:

Pete: 26.2%, 11 delegates
Bernie: 26.1%, 11 delegates

Supposedly Bernie had a clear win in the popular vote

And now I'm hearing the DNC wants to recanvass??

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/io...-primary-02-06

Dumb move trusting Iowans to use an app. This is Florida in 2000 all over again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

These are traditionally people who think that facts=truths and that politics is beneath them. The verdict in the impeachment is almost irrelevant and I think Pelosi played this perfectly.

She waited until enough people got the gist, then pulled the trigger. We held this singular issue - the one people understood Trump was wrong on - in the news for longer than anything else has been in the news. Which means it's now held in the minds of the voter. She also knew that he, Trump, would do nothing to help his case in the remaining months between now and the election.

Furthermore, Bolton not testifying. And Romney making the Republican case against acquittal, only worsened the outcome. The Senate is in play, and if Doug Jones loses, I think this whole exchange will also boot Susan Collins and Corey Gardner.

Not to mention that Trump is a candidate (as we saw in 2018) who animates his opposition. And since he's directly involved in this race, it's going to be a disaster. Worse still is that if Biden or Warren aren't on the ticket, the ammunition the GOP has built up against them is gone. I'm a likely Bernie supporter, but if Mayor Pete gets the nomination, it's going to look like a race between an articulate veteran vs. a dying stroke victim.

The impeachment is a slow moving disater for the Trump Administration.

I don't believe Pete will be the nominee but imo Trump would trounce him

TheBig3 · 02-06-2020, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

I don't believe Pete will be the nominee but imo Trump would trounce him

Seems as if you're not alone

https://twitter.com/SpittingBack/sta...777737222?s=20

~~jwb~~ · 02-06-2020, 02:48 PM

I honestly wouldn't bet against Trump regardless of who the nominee is, unless the economy tanks or something

But Pete is basically a less likable, younger white Obama wannabe. Except he doesn't get the black vote.

~~jwb~~ · 02-06-2020, 04:12 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if he's the nominee... Biden has been the main competition through most of the election so far and things aren't looking good for him at all. If he loses bad in NH then it could hurt his prospects in SC. If he doesn't have a clear decisive win in SC he's all but doomed since the electability argument has been his main selling point.

Since his presumed dominance in SC is based largely on the black vote, Sanders seems like the best contender to pick up those votes. Very hard to imagine Pete being too competitive with that group. Not only is he stained with charges of racism in South bend, he's openly gay. Good luck with that.

Beyond any of the electability **** though, Sanders is really the only interesting candidate to me. Rather gamble on someone interesting than settle.

He's too old to run in 2024 so it's do or die imo. It's hard to predict when the next Sanders type candidate will come along. Especially if a moderate gets nominated and actually beats Trump. That will only validate the narrative that you need that kind of candidate to beat whatever right wing bogeyman is running for the Republicans. If it's Trump vs Pete/Biden/etc it could actually better long term for the direction of the Democratic party if Trump wins.

The Batlord · 02-06-2020, 04:35 PM

At least it gets a bit more in the public's consciousness to compete with the Cold War propaganda. And in a generation when all the baby boomer chaff are dead we can have a shot at public discourse without the living memory of Joseph McCarthy. But in all likelihood the youth of today will become trash just like their parents and grandparents either way.

OccultHawk · 02-06-2020, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I gotta be real though

very little of what Sanders is proposing is going to make it through the Senate or the conservative courts

What happens to this movement when Bernie can't deliver?

I hope they get angrier and more involved...but there's that chance that it all deflates

Sometimes change comes in waves. You have to change how people think before you can reasonably expect change. The impact of a man who calls himself a socialist becoming president might be hard to measure in concrete terms but it could be the seed for something that might have real strength when you’re my age. I’ll go back to regularly scheduled negativity soon but let’s just take a moment to have a tiny seed of hope. Think about it. He identifies with an economic system that is not capitalism. Holy ****!!! It’s big.

debaserr · 02-06-2020, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I gotta be real though

very little of what Sanders is proposing is going to make it through the Senate or the conservative courts

What happens to this movement when Bernie can't deliver?

I hope they get angrier and more involved...but there's that chance that it all deflates

A total of 470 seats in the U.S. Congress (35 Senate seats and all 435 House seats) are up for election on November 3, 2020

Maybe we can vote in some non crooks to swing the Senate majority. They've been particularly bold recently.

02-06-2020, 04:12 PM	#4727 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I wouldn't be surprised if he's the nominee... Biden has been the main competition through most of the election so far and things aren't looking good for him at all. If he loses bad in NH then it could hurt his prospects in SC. If he doesn't have a clear decisive win in SC he's all but doomed since the electability argument has been his main selling point. Since his presumed dominance in SC is based largely on the black vote, Sanders seems like the best contender to pick up those votes. Very hard to imagine Pete being too competitive with that group. Not only is he stained with charges of racism in South bend, he's openly gay. Good luck with that. Beyond any of the electability **** though, Sanders is really the only interesting candidate to me. Rather gamble on someone interesting than settle. He's too old to run in 2024 so it's do or die imo. It's hard to predict when the next Sanders type candidate will come along. Especially if a moderate gets nominated and actually beats Trump. That will only validate the narrative that you need that kind of candidate to beat whatever right wing bogeyman is running for the Republicans. If it's Trump vs Pete/Biden/etc it could actually better long term for the direction of the Democratic party if Trump wins. Last edited by jwb; 02-06-2020 at 04:20 PM.

02-06-2020, 02:48 PM	#4726 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I honestly wouldn't bet against Trump regardless of who the nominee is, unless the economy tanks or something But Pete is basically a less likable, younger white Obama wannabe. Except he doesn't get the black vote.