Political Discussions for "Adults"

OccultHawk · 03-21-2020, 07:30 PM

Switched threads

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I don't know, man. Not only listening to co-workers argue with me over the effectiveness of psychics and astrology, but listening to their concepts of the logic of those ideas is destroying my belief that the human race has a capacity for meaningful re-education. We're ****ing monkeys, dude.

I was listening to a podcast biography on Stalin and I can see that with how stubbornly people defend capitalism in light of all the hardship it has caused - I mean I’m not saying I agree with killing all those people but I understand. If that’s what has to be done I get it.

The Batlord · 03-22-2020, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Switched threads

I was listening to a podcast biography on Stalin and I can see that with how stubbornly people defend capitalism in light of all the hardship it has caused - I mean I’m not saying I agree with killing all those people but I understand. If that’s what has to be done I get it.

Start the purges when you have a more fleshed out ideology cause the Bolsheviks were just too impatient to make anything work.

OccultHawk · 03-22-2020, 05:10 AM

What would it take?

What measures would have to be taken to convince people that people shouldn’t be able to live off the labor of others or be able to hoard more than they need?

Many millions, billions perhaps, would take that to the grave. So how the **** is it supposed to get done?

Either a decent existence for the world is compatible with capitalism or it isn’t (and it isn’t). So what is the ****ing solution? More democracy?

~~jwb~~ · 03-22-2020, 07:59 AM

What podcast was it you listened to that made you sympathize with Stalin lol, I actually wanna check it out.

BTW the idea that people had to be killed cause they were just too greedy/stubborn is ahistorical and erases any supposed moral high ground that one might presume to have over capitalism.

OccultHawk · 03-22-2020, 08:29 AM

Parcast’s Dictators

It was very anti-Stalin, which is the only conceivable position. The world’s greatest mass murderer. No one is going to defend that.

But is climate change real? Is it caused by industry?

Yes & Yes

The endless idiotic love affair with capitalism is incompatible with the survival of our species and many other species more deserving of life than us. With what’s on the line winning would be worth 50 Stalins.

~~jwb~~ · 03-22-2020, 08:44 AM

To be clear... 50 Stalin's would be what... 20 mil x 50 = 1 billion people dead in the course of a few decades. Climate change actually seems mild in comparison.

Of course you can argue that long term it will be worse, ends justify the means type deal. That is how all mass murderers justify their actions, and yet as so often is the case you may never reach that end goal and instead end up with a massive death toll of people who died in vain. This is why as soon as you suggest ANY end goal is worth that you lose the moral high ground and your entire argument against capitalism becomes nothing more than cold hearted pragmatism rather than a rebuke of some sort of injustice.

As for climate change... The scientific projections don't give us long to act so if we can't address it using the current infrastructure we're almost certainly ****ed. We simply don't have time to wait for a revolution that will change the invective structures etc... Either we will come up with a technological solution or we won't. It's that simple, to me.

Anteater · 03-22-2020, 08:47 AM

Just remember that it wasn't all that long ago that climate scientists said we only had 12 years or something and then we soared past that date with zero consequences. Look at the data but take their conclusions with a grain of salt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

The endless idiotic love affair with capitalism is incompatible with the survival of our species and many other species more deserving of life than us. With what’s on the line winning would be worth 50 Stalins.

Interesting, but wrong. There is no life form inherently more "deserving of life" than another one. Animals kill one another in the wild all the time, and sometimes for no real reason at all. As far as anyone can see, the planet itself is also indifferent to all forms of life. Humanity just happened to be the species that got to the top of the pile of corpses first and haven't budged since achieving evolutionary King Of The Hill.

OccultHawk · 03-22-2020, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

Just remember that it wasn't all that long ago that climate scientists said we only had 12 years or something and then we soared past that date with zero consequences. Look at the data but take their conclusions with a grain of salt.

A bush fire the size of California in Australia isn’t a consequence?

The hurricanes, floods, fires, all across the planet?

Anteater · 03-22-2020, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

A bush fire the size of California in Australia isn’t a consequence?

The hurricanes, floods, fires, all across the planet?

The biggest wildfire in human history was way back in 1910, long before the onset of what climate scientists have been talking about. How do you explain that?

The problem with conversations about climate is that, irregardless of what the scientists say right now, there is hard evidence that the planet has gone through warm cycles in the past that make what we are seeing today look like nothing. And human activity wasn't a factor at all in those previous periods, but we still saw Ice Ages and periods where CO2 was in high abundance anyway.

**Frownland** · 03-22-2020, 08:57 AM

Stupid science bitches don't know ****!

03-22-2020, 05:10 AM	#4683 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	What would it take? What measures would have to be taken to convince people that people shouldn’t be able to live off the labor of others or be able to hoard more than they need? Many millions, billions perhaps, would take that to the grave. So how the ** is it supposed to get done? Either a decent existence for the world is compatible with capitalism or it isn’t (and it isn’t). So what is the **ing solution? More democracy? __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

03-22-2020, 08:29 AM	#4685 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	Parcast’s Dictators It was very anti-Stalin, which is the only conceivable position. The world’s greatest mass murderer. No one is going to defend that. But is climate change real? Is it caused by industry? Yes & Yes The endless idiotic love affair with capitalism is incompatible with the survival of our species and many other species more deserving of life than us. With what’s on the line winning would be worth 50 Stalins. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

03-22-2020, 08:57 AM	#4690 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Stupid science bitches don't know ***! __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.* d e a f b o x

03-22-2020, 07:59 AM	#4684 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	What podcast was it you listened to that made you sympathize with Stalin lol, I actually wanna check it out. BTW the idea that people had to be killed cause they were just too greedy/stubborn is ahistorical and erases any supposed moral high ground that one might presume to have over capitalism.

03-22-2020, 08:44 AM	#4686 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	To be clear... 50 Stalin's would be what... 20 mil x 50 = 1 billion people dead in the course of a few decades. Climate change actually seems mild in comparison. Of course you can argue that long term it will be worse, ends justify the means type deal. That is how all mass murderers justify their actions, and yet as so often is the case you may never reach that end goal and instead end up with a massive death toll of people who died in vain. This is why as soon as you suggest ANY end goal is worth that you lose the moral high ground and your entire argument against capitalism becomes nothing more than cold hearted pragmatism rather than a rebuke of some sort of injustice. As for climate change... The scientific projections don't give us long to act so if we can't address it using the current infrastructure we're almost certainly ****ed. We simply don't have time to wait for a revolution that will change the invective structures etc... Either we will come up with a technological solution or we won't. It's that simple, to me.