Political Discussions for "Adults"

Zhanteimi · 08-15-2017, 08:31 PM

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Anteater · 08-15-2017, 10:28 PM

Trump made a good point about the founding fathers, at least in regards to the far left's repeated attempts to rewrite history for the past few administrations. None of them were perfect people (and shouldn't be revered). Doesn't mean people should be wrecking Jefferson statues just because Antifa despise him for owning slaves.

But then he went off on a tangent about race relations and jobs or something and everything went off the rails at that point. Calling out both sides for their respective shortcomings was kind of refreshing, but it was a missed opportunity in most respects.

**Frownland** · 08-15-2017, 10:31 PM

You're right that we shouldn't be taking down statues because Antifa doesn't like them, we should be taking them down because idolatry is a sin.

Mindy · 08-16-2017, 03:57 AM

riseagainstrocks · 08-16-2017, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostasi

My sister sent this to me yesterday. Couldn't get past the 8 minute mark. Absolutely sinister.

Put the following on my Facebook, one of the very few times I dabble in political comments on the platform:

I am not a fan of violence. Violent acts surrender the moral high ground in any debate. Aggression is a sign of the weakness of one's political argument and incites both public sympathy for one's opponent and public opprobrium for one's own cause. Violence during protest marches and demonstrations serves no positive purpose.

Of course, the lone exception to this IS WHEN YOU'RE FIGHTING ****ING NAZIS. Karl Popper, Austrian philosopher and all-around badass, wrote about the paradox of tolerance. His summation is better than any I could write. "The paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

Nazism, and to a lesser extent, fascism, is the ultimate expression of intolerance. Nazis, including many at the Charlottesville rally on Saturday advocate for genocide, slavery, segregation, rescinding civil rights legislation, rescinding the 19th amendment, and a litany of other morally outrageous positions. The canard that this "protest march" was to preserve Virginian history must be outed for the fallacious platform of sinister sophistry that it is. These people long for a time when they were the law and the law was them. Our society cannot tolerate such toxic discourse.

I'm always happy to chat about Affirmative Action, biological and cultural sex/gender distinctions, the efficacy of various forms of government, and a host of other compelling and divisive issues. I will brook no discussion on the moral merits of slavery or the Holocaust. **** Nazis. **** Nazi sympathizers.

riseagainstrocks · 08-16-2017, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

Trump made a good point about the founding fathers, at least in regards to the far left's repeated attempts to rewrite history for the past few administrations. None of them were perfect people (and shouldn't be revered). Doesn't mean people should be wrecking Jefferson statues just because Antifa despise him for owning slaves.

I'm certainly game to dive into the topic but a huge reason that the ire is not target a the Founding Fathers is that slavery was a fully legal institution during their time. Doesn't remove the stain on their legacy, but it's ahistorical to hold past figures to the same moral standards we have today.

The leaders of the Confederacy on the other hand, waged war against their lawfully elected representatives, murdered their fellow Americans in a war of choice, and actively battled to preserve human bondage.

Jefferson, Washington, et. al. were complex men with flaws, but they're on the right side of history, with regard to civic values. Davis, Lee, et. al. are not only on the wrong side of history, but they fought to preserve a system that the majority of the country had determined was a moral abomination.

That's the key difference between target Confederate slaveholders and Revolutionary-era slaveholders and the left's greater disdain for the former.

I think 20-30 years from now we'll have monument 'asterisks' making all parts of their history, and good and bad, upfront.

**Frownland** · 08-16-2017, 11:05 AM

Political violence will always make you a piece of ****, no matter how well meaning your intentions are. Not only is it irrational, but it is wholly counterintuitive because it aids the propaganda of the other side to serve their victim narrative. If not that, you make your side look bad with that ****. That being said, I do agree that it needs to be stopped and not enough is being done to curb it.

Also (admittedly getting a little conspiratorial here), if protests continue to become breeding grounds for violence, I think the government is going to put a hamper on out right to protest. Is violence against POS Nazis mad satisfying? **** ja it is. Does it help the situation? I highly doubt it.

Mindy · 08-16-2017, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

John Kelly during the press conference. Any body language experts here?

his body language makes me sad

and i was already fawking sad damnit

i actually was just thinking of this before i came to this thread. i been thinking of it all day. ****ing sucks at we dont have his or Mattis's leadership for America, instead we have donald trump

Chula Vista · 08-16-2017, 12:27 PM

The 8th CEO quits one of Trumps councels this morning. Trumps response? He disbands the councels.

Boy finds out his girlfriend is about to break up with him so he quickly calls her and breaks up with her first.

djchameleon · 08-16-2017, 12:32 PM

At first he was talking all that trash about them being replaceable now all of a sudden he just dismantles it.

08-15-2017, 08:31 PM	#441 (permalink)
Zhanteimi Mord Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Tokyo Posts: 4,873	. __________________ Zhanteimi LetsTalkMusic Last edited by Zhanteimi; 05-01-2018 at 05:33 PM.

08-15-2017, 10:31 PM	#443 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	You're right that we shouldn't be taking down statues because Antifa doesn't like them, we should be taking them down because idolatry is a sin. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

08-16-2017, 03:57 AM	#444 (permalink)
Mindy ask me about cosmology Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Milky Way Galaxy Posts: 9,015	Last edited by Mindy; 08-16-2017 at 10:03 AM.

08-16-2017, 11:05 AM	#447 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Political violence will always make you a piece of **, no matter how well meaning your intentions are. Not only is it irrational, but it is wholly counterintuitive because it aids the propaganda of the other side to serve their victim narrative. If not that, you make your side look bad with that . That being said, I do agree that it needs to be stopped and not enough is being done to curb it. Also (admittedly getting a little conspiratorial here), if protests continue to become breeding grounds for violence, I think the government is going to put a hamper on out right to protest. Is violence against POS Nazis mad satisfying? ** ja it is. Does it help the situation? I highly doubt it. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

08-16-2017, 12:27 PM	#449 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	The 8th CEO quits one of Trumps councels this morning. Trumps response? He disbands the councels. Boy finds out his girlfriend is about to break up with him so he quickly calls her and breaks up with her first. __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”