Political Discussions for "Adults"

~~jwb~~ · 02-06-2020, 01:48 PM

I honestly wouldn't bet against Trump regardless of who the nominee is, unless the economy tanks or something

But Pete is basically a less likable, younger white Obama wannabe. Except he doesn't get the black vote.

~~jwb~~ · 02-06-2020, 03:12 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if he's the nominee... Biden has been the main competition through most of the election so far and things aren't looking good for him at all. If he loses bad in NH then it could hurt his prospects in SC. If he doesn't have a clear decisive win in SC he's all but doomed since the electability argument has been his main selling point.

Since his presumed dominance in SC is based largely on the black vote, Sanders seems like the best contender to pick up those votes. Very hard to imagine Pete being too competitive with that group. Not only is he stained with charges of racism in South bend, he's openly gay. Good luck with that.

Beyond any of the electability **** though, Sanders is really the only interesting candidate to me. Rather gamble on someone interesting than settle.

He's too old to run in 2024 so it's do or die imo. It's hard to predict when the next Sanders type candidate will come along. Especially if a moderate gets nominated and actually beats Trump. That will only validate the narrative that you need that kind of candidate to beat whatever right wing bogeyman is running for the Republicans. If it's Trump vs Pete/Biden/etc it could actually better long term for the direction of the Democratic party if Trump wins.

The Batlord · 02-06-2020, 03:35 PM

At least it gets a bit more in the public's consciousness to compete with the Cold War propaganda. And in a generation when all the baby boomer chaff are dead we can have a shot at public discourse without the living memory of Joseph McCarthy. But in all likelihood the youth of today will become trash just like their parents and grandparents either way.

OccultHawk · 02-06-2020, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I gotta be real though

very little of what Sanders is proposing is going to make it through the Senate or the conservative courts

What happens to this movement when Bernie can't deliver?

I hope they get angrier and more involved...but there's that chance that it all deflates

Sometimes change comes in waves. You have to change how people think before you can reasonably expect change. The impact of a man who calls himself a socialist becoming president might be hard to measure in concrete terms but it could be the seed for something that might have real strength when you’re my age. I’ll go back to regularly scheduled negativity soon but let’s just take a moment to have a tiny seed of hope. Think about it. He identifies with an economic system that is not capitalism. Holy ****!!! It’s big.

debaserr · 02-06-2020, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I gotta be real though

very little of what Sanders is proposing is going to make it through the Senate or the conservative courts

What happens to this movement when Bernie can't deliver?

I hope they get angrier and more involved...but there's that chance that it all deflates

A total of 470 seats in the U.S. Congress (35 Senate seats and all 435 House seats) are up for election on November 3, 2020

Maybe we can vote in some non crooks to swing the Senate majority. They've been particularly bold recently.

OccultHawk · 02-06-2020, 04:11 PM

I love AOC.

Anteater · 02-06-2020, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Think about it. He identifies with an economic system that is not capitalism. Holy ****!!! It’s big.

Hilarious.

The Batlord · 02-06-2020, 06:33 PM

I mean doesn't he just call himself a democratic socialist? Which is still a capitalist system?

TheBig3 · 02-06-2020, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I mean doesn't he just call himself a democratic socialist? Which is still a capitalist system?

The entire conversation is a distraction. To engage in it makes people worry.

~~jwb~~ · 02-06-2020, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I gotta be real though

very little of what Sanders is proposing is going to make it through the Senate or the conservative courts

What happens to this movement when Bernie can't deliver?

I hope they get angrier and more involved...but there's that chance that it all deflates

I don't expect anything really.. democracy is horse ****... But it's worth a try. Could at least shift the overton window.

Simple fact is a Biden type also has very little prospect of getting his policies (such as public option) passed either, and will also be branded as a socialist for trying. So there's not even much pragmatic value to that approach, on top of being uninspiring.. Remember the fight over ACA? That was with the Dems controlling both branches of Congress. Things are even more polarized today, and Obama was still smeared as a communist.

There's no escaping that reality. But maybe if you start from a more extreme position, any potential negotiation you enter into will have to be further towards that goal than if you started in the center from the get go. Maybe right leaning compromises like the ones Obama and Biden worked out with the Republicans will be less likely. Or maybe it's all meaningless. Would at least be mildly interesting to run the experiment and find out.

02-06-2020, 03:12 PM	#4272 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I wouldn't be surprised if he's the nominee... Biden has been the main competition through most of the election so far and things aren't looking good for him at all. If he loses bad in NH then it could hurt his prospects in SC. If he doesn't have a clear decisive win in SC he's all but doomed since the electability argument has been his main selling point. Since his presumed dominance in SC is based largely on the black vote, Sanders seems like the best contender to pick up those votes. Very hard to imagine Pete being too competitive with that group. Not only is he stained with charges of racism in South bend, he's openly gay. Good luck with that. Beyond any of the electability **** though, Sanders is really the only interesting candidate to me. Rather gamble on someone interesting than settle. He's too old to run in 2024 so it's do or die imo. It's hard to predict when the next Sanders type candidate will come along. Especially if a moderate gets nominated and actually beats Trump. That will only validate the narrative that you need that kind of candidate to beat whatever right wing bogeyman is running for the Republicans. If it's Trump vs Pete/Biden/etc it could actually better long term for the direction of the Democratic party if Trump wins. Last edited by jwb; 02-06-2020 at 03:20 PM.

02-06-2020, 04:11 PM	#4276 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	I love AOC. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

02-06-2020, 01:48 PM	#4271 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I honestly wouldn't bet against Trump regardless of who the nominee is, unless the economy tanks or something But Pete is basically a less likable, younger white Obama wannabe. Except he doesn't get the black vote.