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09-27-2019, 07:10 PM | #3591 (permalink) | |
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Eminently true, but that just makes everything worse doesn't it? Worse than the establishment will ever admit?
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09-27-2019, 07:17 PM | #3592 (permalink) |
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@ Bat
It's unseemly yea but it is sorta complicated to me. Cause it's not always clear if the seemingly ****ed up action is in the country's best interest. E.g. nuking Japan, for an extreme example Yet it's abundantly clear that abusing state power to screw over political rivals or using state policy to enrich yourself or your cohorts is a clearly corrupt and self interested endeavor. |
09-27-2019, 07:19 PM | #3593 (permalink) | |
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And I also liked Warren until I realized she's a shape shifting lizard person That's the ironic truth.. she wasn't lying about being native American. Her ancestors actually settled in Oklahoma a few million years before homosapiens left Africa. |
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09-27-2019, 07:30 PM | #3594 (permalink) | ||
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If man can not notice its own moral evolution and take heart in that noticeable change then it can have no hope for further change.
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09-27-2019, 07:33 PM | #3595 (permalink) |
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I think that we've been on a general upward moral trajectory, but it's a rough art
And in the moment self preservation will often seem more pressing And I feel in the case of that decision, I don't think they really made the wrong choice |
09-27-2019, 07:37 PM | #3596 (permalink) | |||
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In other words, there's a "precedent" to this stuff and it ain't pretty. Also, a few other things to keep in mind- 1. Clinton signed some kind of treaty with Ukraine way back when that gives the POTUS pretty wide ranging powers in regards to mutual investigations of "corruption" (which is pretty vague, but it is law). 2. Republicans screamed bloody murder when Obama told Putin's people he could "be more flexible after the 2012 election" in regards to messing around with sanctions and other things, which was viewed at the time as a more literal quid pro quo and a touchy situation because of Obama's support of arming other European countries with NATO missile systems that could be turned towards Russia. Democrats defended him even when quite a few Republicans called for him to be impeached over the matter. Nothing ended up happening.
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09-27-2019, 07:47 PM | #3597 (permalink) | |
Zum Henker Defätist!!
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I would say that deciding to drop bombs we don't understand is a morally grey area at best, but we still knew that the bombs would kill a number of people, civilians no less, that should have been horrifying to the point that we should have not dropped them (to say nothing of our world's shared moral failures for having conducted the war in the first place). But even giving allowance for a time and place where the morality would have tipped to dropping them we now should understand that dropping nuclear weapons on a civilian population is unconscionable and the lesson was learned by dropping them.
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09-27-2019, 07:47 PM | #3598 (permalink) | ||
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09-27-2019, 07:51 PM | #3599 (permalink) | ||||
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There was an article from the Independent that came out recently that sums it up better than I can.
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But because of the whistleblower's complaint and the resulting media fiasco, he just decided to release it anyway because he apparently thought the transcript would exonerate him of pressuring the Ukrainian President in some sort of forceful or coercive manner. Obviously that hasn't happened, but he must have felt pretty confident about it or he would have just continued to hide information about the contents of the call.
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